Turkish jihad
Russia's participation in the operation in Syria has displeased many, and Turkey is no exception. And the fact that this could threaten Russian-Turkish friendship, Erdogan spoke almost frankly. Today's incident with the downed Russian plane makes one wonder if this is a deliberate sabotage by the Turkish government?http://deagosto.livejournal.com/240480.html
WAga
If the plane crossed the border - Turkey had all the rights to destroy! Combat! aircraft.
It is stupidity to exercise an abstract right without regard to the situation. The plane did not cause any harm and did not pose any danger.
Krokodil Da
Unofficial assistance to the Kurds in creating their own state (but this is already an American project), economic sanctions, sabotage on the territory of the country, assistance from the opposition to overthrow Erdogan ... whatever.
V-Nine
"I double the question. I always wonder where the 'unbiased' get their info from if they don't believe the media."
He was referring to the media of other states. On the whole, it is true for the most adequate assessment of what is happening. But you need to learn to filter them too. And it turns out too "liberal", let's say. I try to keep a neutral position, where each country has its own interests and refrain from assessing what is happening.
nisanis
And yet, where do you get information from, just wondering))
????
From the Russian media. It was reported that the Turks had shot down the SU-24. Took note that he was shot down. I watch hysteria about Turkey started. I sit thinking. I use an ancient algorithm - news is when facts are told to you so that you can accept your opinion on these facts, and propaganda is when someone else's opinion is imposed on you, which is beneficial to someone (the most ancient formula of legal proceedings / only the court establishes guilt / - to tell the TRUTH, ALL the truth , NOTHING except the truth.) In order to impose someone else's opinion on you, they tell you NOT THE WHOLE truth, lie (they say except the truth), report only those facts that are beneficial to someone, and impose, in different ways (for example, intonation, or lies, etc.) .p.) is already a "ready-made" relation to this event.
In short, when they say something to you, it is useful to think - why did they tell you, what they want to "convince" you of, who benefits from it.
SpoilerPropaganda is an art. Gebels did not have modern propaganda capabilities, but despite this, he deceived the Germans (a very intelligent and cultured nation) very successfully. How would Goebbels in our time convince the Germans to fight for Hitler? For example like this. On TV, the announcer, with howling intonations, reports that the illiterate Russian collective farmer Ivan killed the cultured German turner Hans, the Bolsheviks want to destroy European culture, destroy European civilization. After all, it's not a lie that Vanya killed Hans, look at the video footage, the murdered Hans lies. Does the TV lie? Hans was cultured, played the violin, read Heine. And Vanya had two classes of education, his commissars learned to read, only so that he would read the Bolshevik newspaper Pravda. THIS IS TRUE. But at the same time, the German man in the street was not told that Hans, as part of the Wehrmacht, attacked the USSR, that Ivan defended his family and the entire Russian people from complete destruction by the Nazis. So, propaganda told the truth, but not ALL the truth, except for the truth, Gebels lied about the Bolsheviks 'tasks - to destroy European culture and the entire European civilization (although at the same time he quoted the Bolsheviks' anthem “we will destroy the old world, to the ground, and then, we are ours, we will build a new world ")
Wild Rider
I try to keep a neutral position, where each country has its own interests
. IMHO must adhere to common human values.
V-Nine
Google how a Korean Boeing was shot down in the USSR.
WAga
But what interests me most is the commander who sent the crews to that area. Is he really not at all friendly with the head?
They put in command not the capable, but the loyal. Blat rules in cadre productions. You can google what position Serdyukov received, and who was removed to vacate Serdyukov's position.
nisanis
Where did the igil come from?
East is a delicate matter. They are stuck in the Middle Ages. Their religion occupies the highest place in the life of society.
Here is a link to a lecture to better understand the Muslim world. http://www.novayagazeta.ru/comments/70395.html
Assad is the son of another Assad, who seized power in the last century. The Syrians had already staged an uprising against Assad's father, but this uprising was drowned in blood (Assad demolished the whole city of Hamu, killed 40,000 civilians). A rebellion broke out against the son of Assad. It's in Syria. Plus, the same Arabs live in neighboring Iraq. Sunites and Shiites. Who do not like each other, to put it mildly. In general, Muslims have stronger religious differences than Christians. And among these Arabs, Iraqi and Syrian, there is discontent with those who rule them. The Syrian non-Muslim Assad, who is also a vicious tyrant, and the Iraqi discontent that they are not ruled by those who profess their interpretation of the Koran. There is a civil war in both Iraq and Syria.
And here a very vague idea of ​​an "Islamic state" appears, which every Arab understands in his own way. But all are alike in one thing - they say we will win and we will have an "Islamic state" "Real Islamic", we will live according to the law of God, and everything will be in chocolate.
There is no ISIS "organization" as something integral, under a single command. There is a bunch of scattered detachments (gangs) united only by a common vague idea of ​​an "Islamic state."
Let's remember the civil war in Russia. The film "Chapaev" was filmed in the thirties, when the memory of the war was fresh, the participants in the war watched this film. And the fact that this film received such enthusiasm in the country is evidence that the film was very true. And here is such a moment - the peasants are asking Chapaev - Vasily Ivanovich, the people are struggling, are you for the Bolsheviks or for the Communists? Chapay answers - I am for the International!
Let's imagine, the commander of the red division does not quite clearly understand what he is fighting for, that is, he does not think about what will happen after the victory, who will rule, and how. Communists or Bolsheviks? Yes, he doesn't care. He fights for the "Revolution".
Now let's figure out how it looks in the East, where is the medieval mentality of society?
Wild Rider
He was referring to the media of other states.
Foreign media may well be biased in favor of the other side.
But you need to learn to filter them too.
The problem is that truth is not the arithmetic mean of the two extreme positions. You can filter information without the ability to check it only based on your own preferences. Of course, emotional statements in someone's direction are quite an indicator that the source may be biased, but you can also hang on to the poker face.
stalker7162534
Google how a Korean Boeing was shot down in the USSR.
A well-known story. By the way, he did not violate the border by 2 km for a second, but I consider it unacceptable to shoot down civil aviation, unless we are talking about the only way to prevent an even greater catastrophe (like 9/11, for example).
East is a delicate matter. They are stuck in the Middle Ages.
And this applies to the townsfolk. The leaders of this whole movement are probably quite modern guys who understand and skillfully use the deceiving potential of religion.
www.novayagazeta.ru
Is it like one of the "unbiased" media? Clearly understood.
stalker7162534
"In short, when they tell you something, it is useful to think - why did they tell you, what they want to" convince "you of, who benefits from it."
Clearly, I turned on the logic and adjusted the official version to the most suitable for your views, creating my own opinion, so to speak, ok, I myself do this all the time, but the trick is that this is just YOUR (MY) opinion, which is formed by your personal perception of information , obtained from a source that can also be biased, biased, biased, bought in the end, most likely no one can know the whole truth, well, except for the direct participants, of course ... even our tsar father and the Turkish sultan, and the black lord I think they are far from being aware of everything, politics is akin to poker, with all that it implies ...
"And now let's estimate how it looks in the East, where is the medieval mentality of society?"
This is just one of the versions that does not explain much, even if a group of religious fanatics united and created a group of several detachments called the isis, they should have a centralized command, who provides food, weapons, PR, builds infrastructure and, most importantly, finances this organization? Qatar? or Saudi Arabia? Isis Is Selling Stolen Oil? with whom? Where are the sanctions of Western countries against these states? After all, this is essentially support for terrorism, and why is the State Department silent? isn't he officially "fighting" ISIS? Here's a pancake on the weekend of friends to drink beer horseradish collect, and these in a short time, a country with a capital and an army created, on what shishi? And where did the alkaida go? or is it already waste material and now the State Department has a new "prima ballerina" ISIS? And what does the West offer? in a country torn apart by medieval religious contradictions fighting both against each other and against Assad, bring a democracy that is alien to them? Shaw, again (s)? Or the main thing for them is to replace the government with a loyal West, and open access to their companies to the natural resources of this country, and whatever happens to the people ... There are a lot of questions that cannot be answered with one religion, but if you look through the prism of economics and geopolitics .. ..
stalker7162534
"in Syria the people rebelled", this is already a clinical case. Maybe all 100% of the population rebelled, then why is Assad alive? This is more annoying in the brainwashing from the United States, when the whole nation is attributed to some gang.
But no, I know your explanation, if someone is as stupid as you, he is the people, and if not, then the quilted jacket is already an accomplice of the dictator.
Assad is devil we know. If he is overthrown, Allah Babahi will come to power.
And then the Middle East will burn. Assad needs help. He is not an angel, but he is a lesser evil.
stalker7162534
"It is necessary, IMHO, to adhere to universal values."
Human values ​​cannot exist in politics. She is always dirty and hypocritical, no matter which side / country you look at.
V-Nine
"The problem is that truth is not the arithmetic mean of the two extreme positions. You can filter information without the ability to check it only on the basis of your own preferences."
Not the arithmetic mean. And, of course, you can't do without personal preference. The truth will always be hidden from us, but you can try to get closer to it.
If a supporter of the current government in the country listens to other media and draws something for himself from them, then there will already be progress. The same applies to the "liberal" -minded resident of the country. Such a principle no longer leads to uncertainty, but rather to an expanded perception of political news. Consequently, the difference of opinion will be much more diverse, but at the same time not diametrically opposite, which will allow people to discuss without misunderstanding. This is how a person learns to think, analyze.
Well, with the lack of an assessment of what was happening, I, of course, got excited. Realities of life can greatly correct my position on such issues.
Tokrem
"in Syria, the people revolted", this is already a clinical case.
A clinical case is when a person, not knowing, not wanting to know what reality is, assures that reality is as he likes. Here's a link to Wikipedia, first find out, and then talk. Syrian Civil War </ a>
Krokodil Da
. If he is overthrown, Allah Babahi will come to power.
Baba Wanga told you that? Or whispered from the zomboy? In Egypt, the unwanted president was thrown off, and nothing terrible happened.
"Explanation" that we need to get into someone else's civil war, they say, because "they will come to us tomorrow," is tantamount to the same proposal, "let's attack Honduras so that he doesn't attack us tomorrow,"
Mayamenstate
If the plane was shot down over Turkey, then the question arises - why the hell was the plane sent without agreeing on the air corridor? This is a terrible blunder of the high command.
And in order to distract public opinion from the fact that they crap up above, this hysteria was undertaken in the media against the Turkish authorities. The masses habitually hawala and repeat the cattle.
The government, that is, the authorities, owns many TV channels, newspapers, radio stations - everything is collectively called the "Kremlin Pool". Do you think the government gives money to these media in order for them to point out the mistakes of the government, or for the media to assure the people that the government is doing everything right?
V-Nine
Is this some kind of "unbiased" media? Clearly understood.
Do you have specific accusations, can you name the materials of the newspaper that are false?
stalker7162534
Do you have specific accusations, can you name the materials of the newspaper that are false?
In general, I do not presume to judge the veracity of the media, but the non-neutrality of Novaya is no less well-known than that of the Kremlin propaganda mouthpieces. "Liberals" should be avoided in the same way as "patriots".
For example, in 2011-2012, people with white ribbons demanded that the elections be fair - who is against the fairness of the elections? - crooks.
Being against honesty and being against those who demand honesty are actually two different things. Honesty can also be demanded by a swindler who wants to take the place of the current swindler. And ordinary protesters, of course, usually sincerely want what is required.
And here I precipitate, - dude, so you know that "our" propaganda is lying to you, but you believe her because she said (she was lying, because you know that she is lying) that "everyone is lying."
I think that knowledge of propaganda is not a reason to be, in principle, against your country.
"Explanation" that we need to get involved in someone else's civil war, they say, because "tomorrow they will come to us" is tantamount to the same proposal "and let's attack Honduras so that he does not attack us tomorrow" is
not tantamount. Honduras does nothing wrong in practice and really does not pose any additional danger in theory. And yes, how selfish one must be to think only about the benefits for their own safety. I am absolutely not sorry that my taxes are going to fight thugs,
Mayamenstate
9/11 - tricks of the US special services. Bombs were planted in the buildings. They were built so that they could withstand the planes. The SaShka ​​perpetrated terror over its own citizens, so that there was a reason to enter foreign countries to fight terrorists. And so that the people on this the fight was voluntary. The pseudo-fight against terrorists deprives terrorist suspects of their rights. They can be arrested without a warrant and tortured without a trial. About this torture our media rumbled about a year ago, when the SaShka ​​imposed sanctions against Russia