And again the commies are to blame for everything (Metro: Last Light)

It is not the communists who are to blame, but one person - Korbut. His plan, his ambitions, except for Moskvin and Korbut, no one knows about the plague, even the Politburo. Moskvin himself is on a leash because of blackmail. Most soldiers in the army for food or conscription and do not know the big picture: "How did we manage to stop the plague so quickly?"

The Reich and Polis have the same picture. Yes, and in reality the same canoe. A herd of sheep goes on about one leader.

The plot departs from reality around 2002, when the war began. At the end of the nineties, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation - ~ 500 thousand people in the party, Russian nat. unity - ~100 thousand. Here you have ready-made skins with red-bellies.

Komodo Saurian
I agree with you. The main one is Korbut. Maybe Moskvin himself wouldn’t know anything at all if it weren’t for Korbut. But one person, Lesnitsky, is also to blame for the red line. After all, if you play carefully, you can find out that Lesnitsky is an officer of the red line. So, how not like, but the two of them are the most dangerous people in the subway if they have an army. Well, even though it’s unlikely, Pavel knew about everything.
The Reich is not so at all. No one spreads the virus with them. All the fighters know about the D-6. Here the Polis may not know anything about it, but the fighters will guess.

In general, I expected a large-scale confrontation between the fascists and the communists from the game. What the trailers hinted at. But in the end, the fascists turned out to be out of business at all, and the communists are an unequivocal evil that Artyom needs to fight. It’s not necessary about Korbut, he may have given brutal orders, but they were carried out by ordinary soldiers, who then, with jokes and jokes, burned innocent people (including alive) and robbed their corpses.
Against this background, it is doubly incomprehensible why it is impossible to simply kill them all right there, at the crime scene, in order to obtain an alternative ending.

2 Svorngrir

<<I’ll say right away that I’ve only read the Metro 2033 and 2034 books. Now I’m passing through, and it seems that of all the factions, if you could choose like in Stalker, it would be better to “join the Nazis”, because of all factions, they are doing their own "right thing" -
the Reich is just shown extremely sadly - both in the first and in the second part

<< it is not known how they survived not only a nuclear war, Yeltsinoid banned them anyway, but in our time in the party one and a half people remained, the rest "by appointment" - Do
not believe it, in our time the number is growing, just like nationalists.

<< are the root of evil, a solid firing squad and unscrupulous traitors.
--Well, how else can you become famous, being not the most suitable paysatel (But you want to eat, and CSF presses) ?! That's right - you need to "keep your nose in the wind", I'm willing to bet that as soon as the wind changes direction, the creator and his fellow creators will also change their minds. There is nothing terrible and sudden here - not the first and not the last.

<< Or the author simply did not want to perpetuate "pedRo" and other non-parties.?)
- Pardon me, the author can hardly cope with the existing parties anyway. . .

2 Olly-alpha

<< About Korbut, it’s not necessary, he may have given brutal orders, but ordinary soldiers carried them out, who then, with jokes and jokes, burned innocent people (including alive) and robbed their corpses.
--Nothing that they were infected with some "unknown infection"?! And in the conditions of life in the subway - it's even more dangerous. . .
And about loot - Duc, in the conditions of the "end of the world" any thing counts, not red, so looters and adventurers will poke around when the quarantine is lifted, or even the Hansa itself.

The_Bulldozer
Nothing that they were infected with some "unknown infection"?!
No, nothing. After all, the Hansa had the strength and means to organize a camp with a quarantine zone, and not to arrange a genocide. Not to mention the fact that even if the situation requires radical measures, no one has canceled a purely human attitude. I never once heard in the dialogues on Oktyabrskaya that at least someone from the cleansing group regretted what was happening. Everyone had fun and figured out what to steal. For me, it’s just moral freaks, which it’s absolutely not a sin to leave in the same place, among the burning corpses and ruins.

Olly-alpha
Hansa are capitalists, they have a lot of funds and patrons. Therefore, the Reds would not organize such a camp. And for sure, for this camp, the Hanse will still be fully worked out.
Not to mention the fact that even if the situation requires radical measures, no one has canceled a purely human attitude.
Welcome to the subway. Throughout history, including books, we are told that people have lost this very humanity.
I never once heard in the dialogues on Oktyabrskaya that at least someone from the cleansing group regretted what was happening.
Typical situation. If they were human, you wouldn't want to kill them. This is a fictional story, where the enemy is necessarily non-human. Moreover, not everyone was so ruthless.

No need for humanity and no need to try on your current standards of morality in this world. From the point of view of honey. battalion of the Reds, if you do not burn the infection in the bud, then everyone will die. Just what they were trained for, and they do their job with a bang.

Pacifists and whiners do not live long, there is a strong natural selection for 20 years. Survival of the fittest, you hear? So, this is not about the companions. Here is an example, at the Quarantine level, the peasant felt sorry for the children, they say they were scared, he took off his mask, and in the end the children died, and he was not a tenant.

In the first part, if you rob the corpse of Boris, no one will blink an eye, this is the norm. The dead don't care anymore. And the Reds regret the right things, by the way. They had to burn a whole library of books, so much knowledge was lost forever.

2 Olly-alpha

<<No, nothing.
Are you living by a lie? Are you ready to put neighboring stations at risk of infection?! My ?! What if you can't hold back? What if it breaks through? And you need to decide immediately. . .

<<After all, the Hansa had the strength and means to organize a camp with a quarantine zone, and not arrange a genocide.
--1) The Hansa came to a close at the very end, when most of the carriers had already cooled down. 2) The disease quickly loses its virulence. 3) Was it all pure altruism?! Yes ?! Once again - what prevents Hanse from stupidly occupying his "victim" and milking it for a couple of thousand years ?!

<< no one canceled the purely human attitude.
--A purely human relationship is easily canceled even today - by an outbreak of some kind of thick infection and the introduction of quarantine. Then, at least write tons of tearful letters to the UN, but you will follow the orders of the SES in any case (no matter how much you like them) - because it is fraught.

<<I have never heard in the dialogues on Oktyabrskaya that at least someone from the cleansing group regretted what was happening.
--Should be ?! There, several of their own managed to get infected, so if you like it or not, you need to localize the outbreak.

<<For me, moral freaks are so simple,
--Maybe it's time for you to start analyzing situations based on facts and the state of affairs, and not maternal instinct and emotions?!

<<which it is absolutely not a sin to leave in the same place, among the burning corpses and ruins.
--A-ya-yay, but they had families, children, etc.

<<Everyone had fun and figured out what to steal.
--That's just honest - how many corpses did you personally rob (cartridges, filters, etc.) for this part ?! Breathless or not - that's about ?!

Vadiman26
In fact, everything you said by no means cancels my assertion that these comrades are moral freaks.
And yes, by the way, I read books, played games, I am familiar with the setting and I remember very well that there was no global loss of human appearance by all those living underground.

The_Bulldozer
Yes, and the above applies to you too. )) It's time to learn not to act like a tough guy who wholeheartedly "understands" the severity of the situation and the need for radical solutions (of course with jokes and mockery), but to look at things more realistically. And stop thinking stupid clichés like maternal instinct. A simple human idea of ​​an adequate "good" and an objective "bad" is enough for me. Under the circumstances, wiping out the infected looks like the lesser of two evils, but the cleanup team's attitude towards what they're doing is disgusting.

In other words, I can euthanize a terminally ill infectious dog, because there is no other way out, or I can beat him to death with a hammer, laughing at the same time and wondering how cool it would be to sew slippers for the winter out of his skin.
If you don't understand what I'm talking about, then I wash my hands of it.
And I do not need to "dump". =)

2 Olly-alpha

<<that these comrades are moral freaks.
--These comrades did their job, nothing more.

<<Yes, and the above applies to you too. ))
--Since when are we with "you" on "you" ?!
"I shake hands, so we will win" (c)

<<It's time to learn not to play a tough guy, who wholeheartedly "understands" the severity of the situation and the need for radical solutions
-- This is called "logical thinking", try it at your leisure - a great thing.

<< (of course with jokes and mockery)
- This is a mechanism for protecting the psyche, if the fighters of the sanitary brigade suffer for each infected person, they will stupidly go crazy.

<<And stop thinking stupid clichés like maternal instinct.
--What's wrong ?! A stupid cliché is just "to save everyone and just mimimi like an American movie" when there is neither time for this (and the detachment arrived in full swing) nor resources.

<<A simple human idea of ​​an adequate "good" and an objective "bad" is enough for me.
--That is, to divide the world into "black and white"?! Normally, "good - it is, will bring evil to its knees and brutally kill." I will reveal the secret, there are also "forced decisions", yeah.

<<Destroying the infected seems to be the lesser evil under the circumstances, but the cleanup team's attitude towards what they're doing is disgusting.
--In that case, google honey. sites, look for citizens who participated in the elimination of foci, for example, African,

<< In other words, I can euthanize a terminally ill infectious dog, because there is no other way out, or I can hack it to death with a hammer, laughing at the same time and wondering how cool it will be to sew slippers from its skin for the winter.
--Your right, if it stops the spread of the infection, then please - you can make souvenirs out of it. I remind you that the sanitary brigades are not a "society for the protection of animals", and your district SES is the same.
Once again - the maternal instinct is good, it is very good in some cases, but not in this one.

<<If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, then I wash my hands of it.
--Good riddance, "live not by lies" (c)

<<And I don't need to "roll out". =)
- You don't need to poke me, maybe in your "common human understanding" poking a stranger is the norm, but there are also rules of decency.

Z.Y. The question about looting was not answered. What is it?! Ashamed ?!

The Hansa organized a refuge for a trump card in the negotiations. They have a lot of cartridges. After all, they are the first in terms of wealth to help him. And the Reds entered Oktyaborskaya under the pretext of "we are destroying the virus." If only they knew what Korbut was doing there and I don’t understand at all how the Reds people are exterminated. They are not fascists. They burned down the whole station. Why? By order. Or because of wealth. After all, nothing would have happened if they had not spread the virus. monsters.

2 Intelligent

<<how the Reds exterminate people. They are not fascists. They burned down the whole station. Why?
-- We have - an incomprehensible garbage, this garbage has a high virulence and lethality (no one has seen such garbage before and does not know - this is a shield).
There are 2 options to secure the area (station) - either "soap" or "high temperature".
With the "soap" of the bidah - cleaning products are difficult to find, and it's not a fact - what will work, the problem is, however, and the locals may try to leave the station (i.e. there is a possibility of spreading further).
Remains plan B - "high temperature".

<<After all, nothing would have happened if they had not spread the virus.
- I'm more interested in how this can be spread quietly, because the virus quickly "exhales". It still needs to be "carried" (and at many stations the inspection is still the same). Space for maneuver - a little, people - a lot. At the same time, you yourself need to "be in time."

Olly-alpha
Actually, in none of the lists known to me, for a good ending, the chapter Infection is not in any of them as: necessarily- bloodless passage ...
I.e. there you can safely kill all the communists ... just like in the head of the Depot ...

Tiny
Killer Except when stealth killing one of the commies on Oktyabrskaya, I had some kind of suspicious sound effect with screen dimming. Does this by any chance mean some kind of "falling karma" in the context of the gameplay?

The_Bulldozer
Right, I don't think we should continue the dialogue. =)
I expressed my opinion, you have yours too. I was the first to not resist the transition to personalities, and this discussion can be considered over.

You can kill all the people you meet and get a good ending.

Kills count, in particular laying down their weapons, but they alone are not enough to guarantee a negative ending.

2 Olly-alpha

<<The right word, I don't think we should continue the dialogue. =)
--I agree, I don't like it when they don't follow the rules of decency in dialogue.

<<I expressed my opinion, you expressed yours too.
--Is that "I divide the world into black/white and don't care"?! You did not deign to answer the same question, are everyone equal, but you are more even?! They can't - can you?! They are scum - and you are a princess on a horse?!
That's the same, I see your Ego has exceeded 9000. . .

<< I was the first to not resist the transition to personalities, this discussion can be considered over.
--What rudeness, not only did they not answer a fairly simple question, but they also poked.
Try not to get emotional next time.

Olly-alpha
In fact, everything you said by no means cancels my statement that these comrades are moral freaks.
On the other hand, he makes the comparison of the Hansa with the Reds completely erroneous. So, in your opinion, soldiers who carry out orders are moral freaks? They acted on the contaminated territory and, in your opinion, should have asked everyone about their well-being and let go of the walking hotbeds of infection? No, I absolutely agree with Bulldozer's posts. You just don't seem to understand.
And yes, by the way, I read books, played games, I am familiar with the setting and I remember very well that there was no global loss of human appearance by all those living underground.
There may not have been a global one, but a considerable part of the population has nevertheless slipped.

The_Bulldozer
Okay, I persuaded you. Lastly, I will answer. )
Unlike you, I do not allow myself to get personal in a dialogue that can be resolved peacefully. You just point your finger and try to hurt, which looks very stupid and doesn’t even pull on sluggish trolling. And who's got an ego problem here? I already said - I don’t want to continue the “conversation” with you, I don’t want to answer questions asked in a similar tone, either. This is not an ego, this is a banal self-respect inherent in most adequate people. I advise you to develop this feeling.

Vadiman26
I gave the above analogy with a dog. That's exactly how I see the situation. If they tell me "this dog must be destroyed, it suffers and can infect other animals," then my further actions and attitude to the situation will very clearly show whether I am a person or shit. Moreover, I will destroy the dog in any way, but how? What will I experience? Will it entertain me? Will I try to do everything quickly and painlessly, or will I not deny myself the pleasure of mocking an animal before death?
That's what I see in the game, it's not the actions of people, but ... um ... feces. And after all, it’s not even about dogs, but about representatives of their own species, innocent people who suffered for nothing. Including old people and children, i.e. the most harmless and helpless contingent.

That you, that Comrade Bulldozer, obviously, do not understand at all that I do not condemn the act as such. An infection is an infection and an order is an order. But I consider criminals those who were entertained by what was happening, who laughed at a man who was burning alive, for whom these bastards even spared a bullet. I crawled a lot there in stealth and didn’t hear a single dialogue in the style of “What a pity, so many people died”, basically all the talk about what to profit from and “oh, how cool it burns”.

So why write about "walking hotbeds of infection" and other nonsense, if I didn't say a word about "it was necessary to set them all free in the subway"?

And the fact that there was no order, for example, to isolate the station and keep all the sick inside it, and not to wet people right and left - this is quite understandable, why, we know Korbut's motives. I can't even argue here. As for everything else, my opinion remains the same. And if it is not clear to someone that I am writing clearly in black and white for the fifth time ... Then I just give up, apparently, something is wrong with my Russian.

Olly-alpha
No, most likely it coincided with eavesdropping on dialogues... there (in this chapter) you can earn a couple of bonuses to karma by listening to dialogues... just something...
I.e. no one advises you to go through the chapter as a "tank" ... quietly (by clicking V) and listening to the dialogues ...
I remember the episode (overheard conversation) about the burned library (makes it clear that there are quite adequate personalities among the commies). .. +

PS, ah ... and one more plus, at the very beginning ... listen to the speech of one of the dying shot (on its last legs) ...

ZYY. But when stealth killing one of the commies on Oktyabrskaya, I had some kind of suspicious sound effect with a dimming of the screen.
mb is the one that regretted the burned library(?)... in any case, not critical

Tiny Killer
No, during the increase of "karma" a light flash and a characteristic sound. And then there was another sound, lower, plus the screen darkened. I don’t even know, what if there is a decrease in the number of “good” points somehow fixed? Just an assumption, I'm not saying anything, there is no evidence. Maybe some effects really overlapped to the heap.

About the library. This moment took me there a little, to be honest. People are burning around, and a person regrets books. No, I don’t argue, books are good, books are a cultural heritage and, perhaps, the little that remains of the former world and that can be passed on to posterity, but ... In general, I think my thought is for at least someone understandable.
On the other hand, at least some of the participants in the action feel sorry for something. And thanks for that, so

Where is the dying man? Is this the one who is wounded during the execution, but not killed immediately? Or am I confusing something?

Z.Y. Anyway, I'll replay and try to achieve an alternative ending. At the same time, I will see what is possible and what is not. )