Who is right - Tommy Angelo or don Salieri? (Mafia: The City of Lost Heaven)
You will no doubt remember that at the end of a Mafia don Salieri and Thomas Angelo, hmm, to put it mildly, disagree. Who in your opinion was the right one? Whether the rights of Salieri that killed Tom? Violated the Omerta?DAN-12
do not tell me,usually the guilty were taken into the woods,were shot and was a member of the remaining gang members to teach it
Tommy's asshole.Me type use.LOL
You're a fucking thug and not a teacher in the school.It is clear that the boss will put you to use.
Moron.
As for me right Sam and Salieri. How not cool all the same, set them up in history with the Bank, Frank and Michelle. Probably the Bank was for Salieri to the latest drop, and he knew about Frank and Michelle is not the day found them killed, perhaps the reason for unspoken forgiveness could be saving the life of the don. Besides Salieri one throw was not going, and Sam even on the verge of death are not turned away from the family. Himself to blame, never thought I'd quote a mafia 3 but as Lincoln said Vito before he was killed : no one forced You to be greedy. He could sit quietly, enjoy life, watch as the loot drips. But it wasn't enough. This is a serious money they have been a hell of a lot. I'm in this situation is completely on the side of Sam and Salieri.
Both are to blame, both lived by their own laws, killed, robbed and in the end began to fight each other. I mean, if we're talking about the Mafia, what are we talking about? These people are criminologists who call it family. And secondly, which family kills their own? If a person gets involved in such a thing, there is nothing to wait for good. Tommy could stop at the request for help, because Salieri owes him and he is a "family man" and a businessman and would help Tomi, and Tommy did not stop there, he entered the Mafia, chose the path of the killer and is no different from Salieri and the others. He wanted a grandmother, that's the whole truth about him and all the mobsters.
Since the basis of this ideology is rotten, they initially made all the mistakes, and then, it only got worse, of course.
And if a person wants to get out of it and they want to kill him, he defends himself. And he must defend himself in any way, whether he puts his colleagues in danger or not. But, of course, robbing the bank was another tremendous stupidity of Powley and Tom. Robbery of other people's money, murder of many police officers, a setup mafia "family" and his personal, because Tommy had a wife and daughter.
In fact, we play for scum. :)
Spyder-man
In one favor, Don had to protect him for his whole life? Besides, Tommy was paid.
Tommy despite the fact that he defended his family, he was a rat and merged the family to the feds. Don's right to kill him. Tom was too sorry for him and ruined it if he hadn't spared Frank and Michelle things could have turned out differently.
Speaking of remakes, Tommy was right. It was wrong for the don to get involved in drug dealing.
NightHawkreal
I had to help him as much as he needed without asking him for anything in return.
I'm talking about normal behavior, human, not mafia.
But again, because this whole system is criminal, how does not turn out what comes out.
As far as I can remember, Tommy didn't join the mafia for protection. Showed how soaked two pursuers Tommy, and then Tommy joined the Mafia purely as a "job."
If we take another situation, let's say he would be persecuted further and so he joined the mafia, in any case, he could not agree to the mission of robbing and killing innocents, such as the police. A person must defend himself, but he cannot defend himself at the expense of another, that is, to put his blood more expensive than the other. You need to defend only against attackers, etc. But do not kill or rob innocents to protect you mafia, but only attackers.
Tommy on the plot was not in danger and still on missions he has absolutely lost his conscience, to put it mildly. Bank robbery is already the pinnacle of arrogance and cruelty. And he really set everyone up. But Frank was sorry, well, well done. :)
Frank also made a mistake that everyone was thrown and his family is no more expensive than the families of his colleagues.
But Tommy did the right thing, that he did not kill, because these laws are not human, and mafia. And Frank posed no threat to the mafia after Tommy found him.
In short, this whole system is doomed to trouble from the outset. It is impossible to stay white and fluffy in it. That's the point. And according to the plot, there was no need for Tommy or correctness to enter the mafia.
Spyder-man
It says that this time he was rescued, but if he does not join the family sooner or later get it, so it is better to live a little and with money than just a little.
Yes does not look like a family so scumbags who roll all right and left - in the motel they attacked, scumbags wanted to rape Sarah and the first began to shoot, then the war began after the attempt on the don.
With Frank, omerate is the law, but it's not a concept to involve families, so morable is Morello.
NightHawkreal
And if not all, and some, then fine?! That's what I wrote about.
Omerate is a law that violates normal law. Terrorists have laws, too.
About get it, it's kind of in the end he said, but I wrote about it, too, about the possibility that he was really in danger. In short, it does not give the right to kill police officers, rob and deal with all these cases, which is engaged in the mafia.
I didn't talk about Sarah, he certainly did everything right (and cool!). :)
Spyder-man
Even those who attacked them, their loved ones or those to whom they promised protection?
The point of omerate is. that if you don't punish the traitor, then everyone will betray. When joining the family honestly warn - keep quiet.
Cops at first many corrupt. secondly, purely on missions they have to kill rarely, most opponents are also mafia.
NightHawkreal
NightHawkreal wrote:
The point of omerate is. that if you don't punish the traitor, then everyone will betray. When joining the family honestly warn - keep quiet.
I don't share that logic with them.) First of all, I don't think the mafia would have been betrayed. Secondly, this, in addition to being illegal, is also cruelty and murder. Thirdly, it was because of such strict rules that many who wanted to come out of this and start a normal life were afraid and therefore tried to get the protection of the police. That is, the omerate itself pushed people to treason, and if there was no omeert and it would be possible to just get out of this case, no one would betray the "family". And if a person wants to stop bad things, then no one has the right to deprive him of it.
Fourth, if it were really family and just business, you wouldn't need omerta.
Fifth, you can't let a person take someone else's and kill them if they don't. It didn't turn out to be a business, well, so try honestly like everyone else. And if someone is not playing by the rules, it does not give the right to another person to do the same, and leads simply to anarchy where people devour each other. And it turns out that scum are at war with scum. And who needs such a world, such a society?
If a person really wants to help, let him go to work for the police and do everything according to the laws.
And even if we take an extreme case and say that all corrupt, even the police, it does not give the right to become the same. Mafia become frivolous cowards or tyrants. The same has happened in history. But a man should not take this side. And to defend yourself without touching the innocent, because his blood is no more precious than the other person.
And they wanted to come out of this, because it's not a business, it's a criminal organization. The difference between them and businessmen is that if they need something - they take, at any cost, and this is a pure crime and virus of the country, they also bribed the cops, interfered in politics and put those who are profitable to them in a certain post, as templars in the Assassin Creed. :) In this game it's all there. And it doesn't matter a little or too, enough and one murder or robbery, etc.
And Omerate is cruel because they kill a man who might just walk away. And they were betrayed anyway, as I said.
This whole system is stupid, selfish and cruel. Ruling her laws is already a crime, like omeert, for example. And then these people bring these laws to life and are the most common monsters.
Sales cops don't have a reason to kill innocent cops. And it doesn't matter if they kill one police officer or 50, a person is responsible for one person.
Just in the game does not feel the scale and weight of crime, you can just move a police car, so that he did not interfere to steal a new car or soak a bunch of police in the mission "on the roof" , what I currently remember. But discussing the plot and whether the actions of the characters in reality, because the game is made in a realistic version for reflection, it is clear that this is the real monster. And the player sympathizes with the person who is the offender of a higher degree. How much "Sar" this mafia left without a husband or father, but one was saved, and then did not save, in the end and this Sarah became a widow.
The essence of this story is not in the righteous hero, namely the man who sold his conscience for money, and to show what happens to such people. Show the subtleties of people's mistakes, in the mafia, root causes and consequences. Not a martyr. The idea of the game is to play for a good person who makes one mistake after another and is not a good person. And it is his mistakes and the result that make us sorry, and precisely because he is good, but actually bad. And it's interesting because it's instructive, thoughtful, dramatic, atmospheric and compassionate. But if the hero is completely stupid, as in the 2nd Mafia, it is no longer interesting. :)
Spyder-man
That's why they didn't betray Tommy after all these years and under the protection of the feds, but they got it. In principle, it is, but most goes to the mafia consciously, Tommy is an exception - a good man got into this meat grinder and made mistakes. Frank decided not just to "leave" but to leave with the ledgers, that is, to actually destroy the family, where he was trusted. Anarchy is just the absence of even such "laws" as omeert.
If you like to wet the cops, it's your trouble, no one forced you, I've not touched a single one on the street during the passage. And the mission in the hotel, so there in general everything did not go so, illuminated priests at the end. We are exactly shown how dirty and bloody can be the life of a mafia.
As if the mafia is a product of time - war, devastation, depression, dry law .Police can not or does not want to protect citizens, so they are looking for protection from the next don. And it's good if it's Don Salrey, not Don Morello. Read the Godfather, there at the beginning is very well shown.
NightHawkreal
Salieri betrayed both Frank and Tommy, despite the omeler.
NightHawkreal wrote:
And the mission at the hotel, so there in general all went wrong
Tommy had no right to wet the cops and generally join a criminal organization.
NightHawkreal wrote:
We are exactly shown how dirty and bloody can be the life of a mafia.
I'd say how bad and cruel a person can be.
NightHawkreal wrote:
As if the mafia is a product of time - war, devastation, depression, dry law .Police can not or does not want to protect citizens, so they are looking for protection from the next don.
Problems in life do not justify crime. What I wrote in more detail above.
Protection is fine, it's a man's duty. Attacking innocents is a crime, etc.
NightHawkreal wrote:
And it's good if it's Don Salrey.
I wonder when Don is introduced as a good grandfather. :)
The topic is very simple and this question - law, order, honesty above all else. Hence the answer, very simple, who is right and how it was necessary to behave.
Do not create a criminal organization, do not betray anyone, do not take the law into their own hands and do not put yourself above others.
Spyder-man
And both got out of the cut.
Yes, I should have gone to Morello's and asked him to score with his bat. But he would have died an honest man.
And there is no law and order at the time, there is Morello and Salieri.
All the characters of the game did the right thing, because everyone has his own truth. Everyone has their own reasons and excuses for actions. Sadly, no one here understands that. All commentators are on someone's side. And the right and wrong side, in fact, is not.
Spyder-man wrote:
But if the hero is completely stupid, as in the 2nd Mafia, it is no longer interesting
In fact, Vito is very clever, all grasped on the fly - the plot of the second mafia is very cool. Vito met the right people. And when things went awry, Vito had the brains to make a deal with the right people, leaving him alive and with money. And most importantly, Vito made all the key decisions on his own. You underestimate the characters of the second part. If there are fools, it is only the heroes of the first mafia. Tommy just went with the flow - all the decisions were made for him, and when it became quite tight, he stupidly went to the police, because during his mafia career could not get acquaintances with the right people. There's nowhere else to go. Isn't that a stupid hero? Are you dripping?
Spyder-man
The problem with your arguments is that they are based solely on a black-and-white view of the world around you. However, the world is full of shades of gray, it clearly demonstrates the actions of the characters of the game - these are the same shades you do not see. That's why you're wrong about everything. I'm not going to dig up every point, because, judging by your comments, it's useless. Perhaps it's easier for the wall to explain what the wall is wrong about than you are.
NightHawkreal wrote:
And both got out of the cut.
They did not prevent any omerate to try to escape from the mafia.
What you're talking about, they're all just criminals.
Guys, you have a criminal or childish look. =)
Hope to be a toddler.....