Diesel or gasoline? Features of operation of Diesel engines. — Toyota Land Cruiser, 4.2 liter, 1998
The answer to the question of which engine to choose cannot be unambiguous.
For many drivers, acquaintance with diesel began with myths. In Soviet times, it was possible to judge a diesel engine only from the words of truck drivers, since there were no passenger cars with diesel engines in the USSR.
Since there were no diesels, it goes without saying that "diesel is cool."
The resource of truck diesel engines was huge, hence the first myth - a diesel engine has a longer resource.
The resource of diesel engines in passenger cars is probably comparable to gasoline engines. The lubrication of the piston group with diesel fuel can hardly compensate for wear due to heavy loads.
Fuel consumption in a diesel engine is usually less (I remember the legendary gasoline "Ural" nicknamed "100x100" - 100 liters per hundred), and this created not only a myth, but some misconception about the efficiency of diesel engines.
Economy is more than just fuel costs! But also for maintenance ... and if you add the high cost of a diesel car to this, then you can’t talk about efficiency.
One way or another, my first SUV was diesel. A detailed acquaintance with diesel dispelled illusions.
Despite this, I still remain an adherent of diesel. Why?
1. Diesel exhaust does not contain carbon monoxide,
2. Diesel fuel is not flammable like gasoline - this makes the car much safer.
3. The diesel engine is more resistant to work in water (high-voltage wires and spark plugs of a gasoline engine may malfunction in water).
4. Diesel engines are somewhat more powerful at idle (low) speed, which is important when operating off-road.
5. Diesel, as a rule, has a longer power reserve (lower fuel consumption). An off-road gasoline engine, especially with a faulty sensor, can have an unthinkable consumption - 50.70, 100 ... liters per 100 km.
For me and most drivers, this is enough.
Among the disadvantages of diesel engines are the following:
1. Interservice mileage is 2-3 times less than that of gasoline engines - usually 5-8000 km.
2. Diesel is very sensitive to fuel quality. The most typical example of "fuel exchange": a diesel engine on gasoline will quickly break down, a gasoline engine on diesel fuel can work.
Water and dirt in the fuel lead to rapid wear and breakdown of fuel equipment. The fuel filter requires regular inspections: one bad fill can be enough to damage the filter and/or equipment.
In this regard, I recommend using trusted gas stations. I myself try to refuel on "branded" ones - although this is not a panacea. Bad fuel also happens at branded gas stations.
Every diesel car owner should know where the fuel filter is located and have a spare. For preventive purposes, the filter sump should sometimes be drained (water and dirt accumulate in it).
3. A limited number of specialists in the repair of diesel equipment and engines.
4. Higher operating (item 1) and repair costs.
5. The worst dynamic characteristics (to a greater extent this applies to "atmospheric" diesel engines).
6. Difficult start and operation of the engine in winter (in combination with item 2).
Usually problems start at -20 and below. Although high-quality fuel with additives allows you to operate a diesel engine at -55.
7. The worst resistance to water hammer and water ingress into the crankcase. The combustion chamber in a diesel engine is significantly smaller than in a gasoline engine. Even an insignificant amount of water leads to serious damage. In combination with the Turbine and severe frost (an ice plug forms on the crankcase ventilation), a water hammer can occur as a result of oil getting into the combustion chamber, or the engine “goes into overdrive†(unwinding to exorbitant speeds as a result of burning oil instead of fuel). Also, water hammer (or "spacing") can occur as a result of turbine wear. Of course, oil water hammer can also happen when a car rolls over. Oil starvation or water ingress into the engine oil significantly faster disables the Diesel engine due to the higher load on the bearings (liners) of the crankshaft.
8. In general, lower reliability, with characteristic and "expensive breakdowns": breakdown or wear of the Turbine; high-pressure fuel pump (poor-quality fuel, untimely filter replacement); cracks and deformation of the cylinder head (poor-quality fuel, extreme operation, overheating).
Modern diesel engines are stuffed with electronics like "injectors", which obviously makes them even less reliable.
9. Diesel engine has a smaller operating speed range. As a result, lower speeds on the highway and increased engine wear at maximum speeds (especially on low-quality fuel).
The diesel engine should undoubtedly be turbocharged - this increases its power and dynamic characteristics, which reduces fuel consumption.
At the same time, when operating a turbodiesel, I recommend:
1. Install a turbo timer (the turbine has inertia, and when the engine is turned off, its lubrication and cooling stops).
2. Be more careful about the timing of oil and filter changes.
3. Do not give the diesel excessive loads. If you want to drive, buy gasoline.
About the freezing point.
According to GOSTs, the freezing / cloud point of DT (Diesel fuels)
Summer = -10 / -5
Winter = -35 / -25
That's it, it seems to me that it is impossible to reduce consumption and increase HP without damaging the engine ...
Yes, turbodiesels lend themselves best to chipping - consumption is reduced and power is increased. True, what is happening with the resource, opinions are contradictory, this is the only thing that stops me for now.
I found here on the site one Kruzak, 100, with chip tuning, it has a diesel engine, because of this small box, the consumption per liter is less, and the power, ATTENTION! -100 more horses! At first, I didn’t believe it, then he threw me the name of the chip, now I dug up information about the company, I’m writing a blog. By the way, the French do it)
Yes, everything seems to be so, but the ingrained stereotype says that diesel is cooler, and I love it :) :)
But if something goes wrong, then damn it, you’ll immediately get $))) Look, I flew to 78 high-pressure fuel pumps, and everything, immediately costs, they found it well on the cheap, for 10,000 ...
In theory, I agree. But in practice, things are better for me, so I don’t even know what to think. This is probably because most diesels are still made for difficult conditions. Because the "super" car is always gasoline, and the "hard worker" is diesel. Apparently, technologically, a greater margin of safety is simply laid, as a result of which, at least I have such a conviction that diesel engines run longer than gasoline ones. And diesel fuel itself, logically, should cost less than gasoline ...
Well, I won’t argue on most points, since everyone has their own data ...
If you pour sunflower oil, it won’t pass 1,000,000) The filter holds if it is changed on time, and then it can miss it. About the frost, you can see very warm -40 ... Or a very high-quality solarium at gas stations, in 2 days everything will be staked, and then only by cable to the garage.
Among the shortcomings of diesel engines, the following can be mentioned:
1. A very controversial issue, I do it every 20 thousand (not counting the oil and filter
) , Duc and a rocket on gasoline does not fly.
Water and dirt are perfectly retained by the filter.
I don’t change the fuel filter myself, but when I do maintenance, I don’t see any problems.
3. I agree
4. Costs are still less than on petrol ones (IMHO)
5. Worse dynamic characteristics (to a greater extent this applies to "atmospheric" diesel engines)? dynamic performance at altitude, diesel is not for drag racing.
6. I will say the following about frost. 2 days the car was at -40, it started up from half a poke.
7. I won’t say anything here ...
8. And the reliability of a diesel engine is generally an indisputable fact, a million go and at least henna.
For 3 years before -32 there was no such thing as not starting up))) so there is no argument about the independence of a diesel engine. PS I don't have a webcast)))
So the point is that in winter the car can also be fed with the 95th and 98th. So about flammability is not an argument :) By the way, I don’t remember a single time on foreign cars when it didn’t start on the 92nd. Good service, timely oil change and everything is ok.
I will upset you. count up there are summer and winter gasoline, and to be precise in Russia there are 8 subspecies of them, depending on the region of use and the time of year. in winter, when you don’t start, it’s not as obvious as on a diesel that there is paraffin in the tank because gasoline doesn’t freeze, but it doesn’t evaporate enough to ignite)))
kuzmagogo
I remembered here an irrefutable fact about a diesel engine ...
In recent years, starting with the Dakar driver Schlieser and his buggy, everyone and everywhere is switching to diesel. What's in the desert at +50, what's in the snow -50, so that's a fact. The diesel engine has an undeniable advantage in terms of performance.
I must say that at low temperatures, benz does not evaporate and, as a result, does not ignite, but diesel burns, they simply add something there.
Incorrect judgment - "at low temperatures, benz does not evaporate and, as a result, does not ignite."
80th benz - yes, at -25 the car will not start. Lighter fractions of gasoline have better volatility. So the 98th will burn well at -40.
Diesel - winter at -40 also freezes, so only diesel class "Arctic" will help. In contrast, benz can be 102 and 116. By the way, in terms of hemorrhoids of the search, they are comparable.
ChegeWARa
Well, I don’t know, I don’t understand the properties of diesel fuel itself) I just know that a summer solarium freezes at -15 and the car gets staked ... And by the way, I also know that a solarium just doesn’t ignite. You need something, otherwise it doesn’t burn (I set it on fire with matches, they go out in it, and just kept the matches above the surface, the effect is zero)
Here it is probably worth remembering that in the engine the salary is not set on fire by anything. It explodes on its own. Therefore, diesel engines initially have a higher compression ratio. And glow plugs are needed only to warm up the combustion chamber in the cold season. They are not needed during the summer.
ChegeWARa
Well, I don’t know, I don’t understand the properties of diesel fuel itself) I just know that a summer solarium freezes at -15 and the car gets staked ... And by the way, I also know that a solarium just doesn’t ignite. You need something, otherwise it doesn’t burn (I set it on fire with matches, they go out in it, and just kept the matches above the surface, the effect is zero)
I may be late commenting, but better late than never. for reference: diesel fuel ignites not from ignition, but from compression.
Well, then gas is also dangerous, it explodes)) In general, life is an extremely dangerous thing. You just wrote that diesel is on fire, benz is not ...
The trick is that compression is needed, from here comes safety along the ignition line
Well, I don’t know, I don’t understand the properties of diesel fuel itself) I just know that a summer solarium freezes at -15 and the car gets staked ... And by the way, I also know that a solarium just doesn’t ignite. You need something, otherwise it doesn’t burn (I set it on fire with matches, they go out in it, and just kept the matches above the surface, the effect is zero)
I remembered here an irrefutable fact about a diesel engine ...
In recent years, starting with the Dakar driver Schlieser and his buggy, everyone and everywhere is switching to diesel. What's in the desert at +50, what's in the snow -50, so that's a fact. The diesel engine has an undeniable advantage in terms of performance.
I must say that at low temperatures, benz does not evaporate and, as a result, does not ignite, but diesel burns, they simply add something there.
The answer was posted as a separate comment to the post. Sorry app on phone is buggy.
1 - easier to repair gasoline.
2.3 - Familiar theme - turbo lag? Any turbine has efficiency losses at low speeds. the engine has to turn the turbine, which has not yet reached operating pressure, and this is extra resistance and a decrease in power. Accordingly, there is a loss of traction at low speeds.
Are you comparing atmospheric gasoline with a turbo diesel? Doesn't it seem that the comparison is initially incorrect? Compare turbodiesel and turbopetrol.
4 — interservice mileage, I can draw at least 30k km. It is important for the dealer to withdraw money from you. In the instruction manual, Russia is listed as a country with severe weather conditions, which means maintenance is 2 times more often - 7.5k.
no one is to blame for the fact that you drove a badly docked gearbox and a gasoline engine. I saw this on Chinese cars, both diesel and gasoline. In other cases, both diesel and gasoline drive exactly the way the driver presses on the gas.
1 - IMHO + - the same reliability
2.3 - All modern diesel engines with a turbine. comparison of the volume of the turbine is not correct. because the technologies are different, but with comparable power, for example, 250 horses gasoline and 250 horses diesel, I think it’s not necessary to tell who has more torque on the bottoms? and remember that the cost will be much less. 1HZ from idle to 1000 rpm - proof in the studio. I don’t believe that naturally aspirated will put a twin turbo diesel on the blades, let’s say with the same 4.2 liters. even up to 1000 rpm.
4 - the operating costs of a diesel engine are no more than those of gasoline. modern diesel engines have an inter-server mileage like petrols of 15 thousand each, while there are much fewer consumables.
and in the end I can say that in the city it is much easier to drive on a diesel than on gasoline, since a diesel engine just picks up from the bottom and even a low-power diesel engine calmly keeps in the stream. Well, the expense will be nice to please the pocket.
I'll throw a little smelly on the fan:
1) All of the above can apply to diesels of the old school. Nissan TD42, TD42T, TD27, TD27T, QD32, QD32T etc. Toyota HZ, HD-T, HD-FT, HD-FTE, 3L, 5L, KZ. Why? Because they have a low degree of forcing, a mechanical injection pump, most of them are atmospheric. To be objective, you need to compare their reliability with gasoline monocabs of the same time.
And about a miracle! Gasoline FZ-F, FZ-FE (1st and 2nd generation), 1UZ, 2UZ, TB42, TB45, TB48, 3VZ, 5VZ, 3RZ never go less, and sometimes more. If you follow them at least more or less, occasionally change wires, coils, clean the radiator, monitor the fan clutch, thermostat, then suddenly (!), they go further than diesels. They are extremely evenly related to our 92nd gasoline and live on it for 10 years.
Moral: Be objective. The resource of cast-iron single-volume gasolines is not less, but more, under the same service conditions, and because. lower compression ratio. I saw several 2UZ 100s with a range of more than 1 million km and diesels too.
2) Diesel is no less dynamic than gasoline. True only if the diesel engine with a turbine. And if gasoline will be with a turbine? 400 HP and 600Nm on a "small" turbine?) Haven't you seen the frantic patrols of the Arabs on TV48 with 1000hp that Lamborghini go around?)) The turbine is not quite for an SUV, something extreme comes out here. You can consider installing a compressor on gasoline. Even if it is less efficient in places, it will nevertheless remove the same 370hp and 500Nm from 1FZ.
Do I need to compare 1HD-FTE and 1FZ-FE (compressor) in terms of dynamics? 204hp and 380Nm and 370hp and 500nm? The answer is obvious. Here, knch, respected diesel engineers mentioned the chip - it will give dope. Yes, but at the expense of reliability. After such shamanism, you will need not a simple diesel fuel, but a Euro 4 diesel of European quality in order for the car to live its due date. The compressor from gasoline will require a fuel quality of at least 95-98.
Moral: See point 1. The dynamics of gasoline, other things being equal, will be higher. Anyway.
3) A diesel has better low-end traction than a gasoline one. Yes lan?)) Other things being equal, no. Factory charts confirm this. The same Toyota 1FZ already produces 320 Nm from 1000 rpm and reaches 380 to 3600 rpm. Cooler only HD-FT and HD-FTE. But if we again come to "equalizing" and compare FZ with a compressor with them, then the picture will be reversed. I won’t even talk about 2UZ with / without a compressor ... There
is one fact - 1HZ from idle to 1000 rpm in terms of torque puts all turbodiesels and gasolines. Only this feature is narrowly applicable, because. gives an advantage only in the swamp.
Moral: See paragraphs 1 and 2. There is no dynamics without a good portion of torque. The diesel engine has a higher cycle efficiency, due to this it has lower consumption and lower torque. With an increase in the efficiency of the gasoline cycle (compressor installation), it is in no way inferior, but in some places it surpasses diesel.
4) Higher operating (item 1) and repair costs for a diesel engine. It's true. If you do not change the oil on a diesel engine for 20 thousand km, it will survive. If I don’t change it for 30 thousand on a benzo, it will also survive. And all this for the time being. In the Soviet Union there was such a thing as a "culture of vehicle maintenance." If you change the oil every 20tyk on a diesel engine, this is incivility and an application for the destruction of a car. In short, "rider", as my father says (50 years of driving experience).
Miracles don't happen. We live in a world where the laws of conservation of energy and matter apply. If the compression in the motor is higher, then the maintenance schedule should be more frequent.
Moral: See point 1. Maintenance of a diesel engine, other things being equal, is more expensive. Saving on diesel maintenance is expensive...very expensive.
Summary:
I am not against the diesel engine. But it has a certain purpose and it really gives savings in operation if its advantages are used to the fullest.
Advantages:
1) The solarium does not burn in its normal state
2) The exhaust of the solarium does not contain carbon monoxide, which means you will not suffocate in your sleep in the car.
3) Diesel consumption is lower, which means more power reserve
4) Average traction on the bottoms is better
5) Diesel is stored longer than gasoline in autonomous conditions and does not lose quality
6) It is easier to prepare for overcoming fords.
7) Available in almost any housing in the north.
If you look closely at these advantages, it is obvious that they are most suitable for an expeditionary vehicle. Those. diesel is more suitable for large and long unhurried hauls, work in autonomous conditions and with increased safety requirements for cars.
Finale: city - gasoline, expeditions - diesel.
I will not generalize, but I will specify about my diesel engine. I have a commercial diesel Iveco, put on the Iveco daily, Fiat Ducato, well, until 2012 on the Patriot.
Traction on the bottoms is not comparable with gasoline (repeatedly confirmed by the owners of gasoline Patras who sat behind the wheel of mine).
Starting in frost is treated by using seasonal fuel (we have problems in winter), or by adding an anti-gel (motor oil, brake fluid). It is possible to install electric heating of fuel filters and lines.
Oil according to the manual Iveco Daily (engine F1A) Urania synthetics changes every 20,000 km, or once a year. And this is for Russia. In the Italian manual, the mileage from replacement to replacement is 40,000 km with an intermediate filter change. The frequency of oil change depends to a greater extent on the quality of the oil itself, and to a lesser extent on the design features of the engine itself.
Fuel filters are changed FTOT 20000-40000 km, FTOT 40000-60000 km. The sludge is drained according to the contamination indicator.
To protect the fuel system, you can cut into the FTOT line from KAMAZ (the volume is huge, 2 glasses and a filter are cheap)
The increased diesel resource, I emphasize, I'm talking about commercial engines, is far from a myth. While working in the service station of a Fiat dealer, I regularly met Dukatiki with a mileage of 700 thousand-900 thousand and still quite efficient. The lubricating properties of diesel fuel cannot be denied and discounted.
A turbo timer is needed not only for a diesel engine, but for any engine with a turbine.
But I absolutely agree with the conclusions of the author. For the city Gasoline, for expeditions Diesel
So what's the problem?)) But the efficiency of the F1 engine (which spins to the same values ​​u200bu200band higher) is more than some diesel ones))
Volunteer87
About efficiency. I hope you take my word for it, I can't find the old article right now. Previously, in Europe there was a class of 402 meters - highly forced aspirated. There was one V8 5.7 liter with SJ 14.5 with a power of 500 hp. I emphasize ... the atmosphere.
Let's take the same atmospheric diesel engine. I will say right away that there is no such coolant for a diesel engine. There are about 16. So, an diesel engine of such a coolant and such a volume will give no more than 200 hp.
The question is, where is the efficiency?))
Look at the motorcycles there, they take off 200 horses per liter. Because they turn the engine up to 14 thousand rpm.
Volunteer87
So you prove it) Otherwise, I don’t believe it, and here science suggests that within the framework of a piston engine, its efficiency is questionable))
Let's summarize:
a) Diesel is more expensive to maintain (s / h is more expensive) found out.
b) Diesel is more economical, but not by much. As we can see from the BMW example — 1.4 liters per hundred. Which is never 1/3 more economical
. c) The cost of a diesel car is higher.
d) The cost of maintenance depends on the culture of the driver and the desire to service the car
Are there any other arguments?
a) you figured it out b) much more economical. Declared by the manufacturer and real are very different. Do not believe me go to the test of the same BMW and ride on both. c) the cost of a car is higher, but the cost of selling is also higher. d) the cost of service is the same. Diesels don't need to change spark plugs.
So you prove it) Otherwise, I don’t believe it, and here science suggests that within the framework of a piston engine, its efficiency is questionable))
Let's summarize:
a) Diesel is more expensive to maintain (s / h is more expensive) found out.
b) Diesel is more economical, but not by much. As we can see from the BMW example — 1.4 liters per hundred. Which is never 1/3 more economical
. c) The cost of a diesel car is higher.
d) The cost of maintenance depends on the culture of the driver and the desire to service the car
Are there any other arguments?
I'm tired of writing with you :) diesel has a higher efficiency, no one has been able to refute this yet. If you think in terms of quantum physics, then this is not for me. )))
So you just live in school physics. In engine building, there is such a thing as the filling of cylinders and the efficiency of using the working volume, which also determine the coefficient of combustion of the mixture, which, changing upwards, increases the efficiency. In order not to write a lecture, I will give an excerpt from an article on the efficiency of piston engines:
"... the established opinion about the possibility of achieving an extremely high engine efficiency mainly due to the maximum possible degree of preliminary compression of the working mixture is valid only for piston engine designs, where a piston rapidly moving from the "bottom" of the cylinder towards the crankshaft (due to forced drive from the crankshaft) with a huge speed expands the volume of the "combustion chamber" and reduces the pressure of the ignited (and also burning) charge of the working mixture. In the Lenoir piston engine, operating without preliminary compression of the working mixture, this disadvantage of piston engines manifested itself especially clearly. Which led to its extremely low efficiency. "
www.rotor-motor.ru/page08.htm
High efficiency of a diesel engine (30-45%) is achieved only in multi-liter high-powered engines. In their usual efficiency, not less than 10%, i.e. closer to gasoline (25-30%).
In total, it follows from this that the efficiency of an engine with a higher compression ratio is higher than with a lower one.
You again confuse the concept of efficiency is the efficiency. That is, how much fuel the engine consumes per unit of work. Gasoline has always lost. Then about the atmosphere of motors. Gasoline and diesel have different processes and gasoline can easily increase power simply by increasing the rpm. Shift of the red zone due to steep lubrication shafts, etc., etc. Diesel is not forced like that due to physics. Learn physics
gonzhell
Energy efficiency is efficiency and not power per liter. Diesel is also turbocharged and successfully.
About efficiency. I hope you take my word for it, I can't find the old article right now. Previously, in Europe there was a class of 402 meters - highly forced aspirated. There was one V8 5.7 liter with SJ 14.5 with a power of 500 hp. I emphasize ... the atmosphere.
Let's take the same atmospheric diesel engine. I will say right away that there is no such coolant for a diesel engine. There are about 16. So, an diesel engine of such a coolant and such a volume will give no more than 200 hp.
The question is, where is the efficiency?))
I guarantee that gasoline can be dispersed like that. An example of this is 2JZ-GTE Toyota supra
www.drive2.ru/b/288230376151780486/
Successful but limited. Is it possible to remove 1500 hp from a 3L R6 turbodiesel?
Energy efficiency is efficiency and not power per liter. Diesel is also turbocharged and successfully.
gonzhell
Gp is ​​lower because the diesel has higher torque. Like it or not, diesel is more energy efficient. Therefore, all trucks. Trains. Diesel ships.
They are diesel because a diesel engine has always had a higher compression ratio, and the higher it is, the higher the efficiency, but a diesel engine cannot be reached with such energy efficiency by turbating it like a gasoline one - it will break it :) you can reduce the coolant in gasoline and blow more, which will increase power and torque. With a diesel, such a thing will not work, it will simply stop detonating.
Read carefully what low IFs mean and what high IFs mean. Low IF is 5 (5 times the torque on the wheels), high IF is 3.5 (3.5 times the torque). So gasoline does not need such multipliers to drive interestingly, but does diesel need it?))
Dear read your own comments carefully. You wrote about the gear ratio. I confirmed. Where is the contradiction?
Do you understand the difference in the above / below the GP?)) agreeing that the GP below you automatically contradict your second phrase. Low are those GPs that have a high gear ratio, which means that the engineer is trying to pull out their "dead" insides with a transmission with a large gear ratio, short large gears and their number;)
Gp is ​​lower because the diesel has higher torque. Like it or not, diesel is more energy efficient. Therefore, all trucks. Trains. Diesel ships.
gonzhell
1 is easier but not cheaper. 2.3 turbo lag on a diesel engine, I don’t notice the peak torque at 1700 rpm. 4. Interservice I have 15 thousand. Warranty 5 years. From the factory. How will the dealer charge me if everything is repaired at the expense of the factory. In the instructions, if you read it, there is no such thing that Russia is a priori difficult conditions. This is another myth. Skoda 1.8 dsg lexus nx200t badly docked?
2.3 - you don’t notice, but it is :) and what kind of diesel engine do you compare Skoda 1.8T and 2.0T Lexus with? PS Have you compared the GP gear ratio of the machines? For diesel engines, it is usually lower than for gasoline engines - this is also important :)
Volunteer87
Oh, cool example from ix35. I also recently tested the Tucson 1.6 turbo on a 7-speed robot. And his consumption in test drive mode was 12 liters per 100 km, taking into account the fact that everyone is driving in sport mode. One problem - the native robot is not yet very strong, but in combination with efficiency - I recommend it, it will surprise you very much with its character.
The second point is that Hyundai and Kia in this segment put the flagship 2.0 turbodiesel on their cars. So there is no choice: either a dead 2.0 gasoline (tested, dull car) or a 2.0 turbo diesel.
PS So the final choice was not made because of the engine, but because of the high cost of CASCO and waiting? :)
Cx5 gasoline pch first 3.552 and main 4.325 well, what is lower than that of a diesel?
Neighing, yes ... Gasoline is a little slower ... 7.3, and diesel 7.2) The difference in fuel consumption (moreover, declared by the manufacturer) is 1.4 liters per 100 km))
iiiii ... drum roll ... gasoline is cheaper by 250,000 rubles)))
Here you can put an end))
Volunteer87
So this is 1.6T gasoline? Nothing that it has a little less volume? 2.0T some … I won’t even offer an eva)) Subaru wrx, ​​don’t sti. Lan, it's also not fair ... you can take the same NX200t
Hyundai: 184 @ 4000 rpm 392Nm @ 1800 - 2500 9.8 sec to 100
Lexus: 238 @ 4800 - 5600 rpm 350Nm @ 1650 - 4000 7.2 sec to 100
Kag be the difference is obvious. 700 rpm as much as 400 Nm, and then the car goes out or 350 Nm from 1650 to 4000 :)
Look bmw 320 benz all-wheel drive 184 hp 7.6 up to a hundred and diesel 320d all-wheel drive 190 hp 7.3 sec. Identical cars both 2 liters. One petrol and one diesel.
Volunteer87
So this is 1.6T gasoline? Nothing that it has a little less volume? 2.0T some … I won’t even offer an eva)) Subaru wrx, ​​don’t sti. Lan, it's also not fair ... you can take the same NX200t
Hyundai: 184 @ 4000 rpm 392Nm @ 1800 - 2500 9.8 sec to 100
Lexus: 238 @ 4800 - 5600 rpm 350Nm @ 1650 - 4000 7.2 sec to 100
Kag be the difference is obvious. 700 rpm as much as 400 Nm, and then the car goes out or 350 Nm from 1650 to 4000 :)
Let's have a car equal in mass and power and we will drive.
Volunteer87
So here's a 2.0 turbo, diesel and petrol. The class is the same. What's wrong?)
And the diesel consumption is much lower)))
So here's a 2.0 turbo, diesel and petrol. The class is the same. What's wrong?)
And the volume. You still take a45amg there 360 ​​horses. Of course the Lexus is faster because there are 54 more horses. That is, it is almost 30% more powerful.
So this is 1.6T gasoline? Nothing that it has a little less volume? 2.0T some … I won’t even offer an eva)) Subaru wrx, ​​don’t sti. Lan, it's also not fair ... you can take the same NX200t
Hyundai: 184 @ 4000 rpm 392Nm @ 1800 - 2500 9.8 sec to 100
Lexus: 238 @ 4800 - 5600 rpm 350Nm @ 1650 - 4000 7.2 sec to 100
Kag be the difference is obvious. 700 rpm as much as 400 Nm, and then the car goes out or 350 Nm from 1650 to 4000 :)
If you read carefully, I chose cx5 2.5 liter 192 horses and Hyundai ix35 crdi 184 horses. In terms of dynamics, I liked the Hyundai more. Design and interior Mazda. The helmet decided. I have 50 thousand on the Hyundai. There were 130. 1.6 turbo does not go in comparison with a diesel. Test diesel and you will be pleasantly surprised.
gonzhell
What are you all attacking the injectors. Forunki on tfsi are not much cheaper. Injection pump is a very reliable unit that runs for 300 thousand or more. Fuel consumption. I do not believe. I chose Mazda cx5 2.5 liters and ix35 2 diesel. With the same + - power and dynamics. Mazda on the test showed 21 liters. Hyundai 14. Salons 100 meters from each other drove a specialist on the same route. There was no bias because I wanted a Mazda, but it repulsed me that I had to wait 3 months and hull insurance for 130 thousand.
Oh, cool example from ix35. I also recently tested the Tucson 1.6 turbo on a 7-speed robot. And his consumption in test drive mode was 12 liters per 100 km, taking into account the fact that everyone is driving in sport mode. One problem - the native robot is not yet very strong, but in combination with efficiency - I recommend it, it will surprise you very much with its character.
The second point is that Hyundai and Kia in this segment put the flagship 2.0 turbodiesel on their cars. So there is no choice: either a dead 2.0 gasoline (tested, dull car) or a 2.0 turbo diesel.
PS So the final choice was not made because of the engine, but because of the high cost of CASCO and waiting? :)
Hyundai/Kia33800-2F600 Injector assembly-fuel 58 038r. 3 days — Hyundai 2.0 Disel
Toyota 23209-36030-01 Injector assy, ​​fuel(for direct), — 15 786r 7d — Lexus NX200t
See what's next?
Just in case, I'll add:
Toyota 90919-02269 Ignition coil assembly - 5 720 rubles (I will choose the most expensive option)
Toyota 90919-01276 Plug, spark - 1200 rubles. (also the most expensive option)
Volunteer87
TFSI - there are few of them and so far this is the exception rather than the rule, but the diesel engine is now a solid common rail. And you have no choice. Diesel=common rail. And gasoline went and bought MPI, at least turbo, at least not turbo)
Unfortunately, I have to disagree. 300 thousand mechanical part - it is possible, but electronics usually die, and it is expensive and is not sold separately now.
Tfsi is an example. Look at any modern gasoline engine.
I'm calling from phone. We googled the rail pressure sensor in the fuel pump and that's it. It costs a couple thousand.
Electronics costs a penny and does not require replacement of the fuel pump assembly.
TFSI - there are few of them and so far this is the exception rather than the rule, but the diesel engine is now a solid common rail. And you have no choice. Diesel=common rail. And gasoline went and bought MPI, at least turbo, at least not turbo)
Unfortunately, I have to disagree. 300 thousand mechanical part - it is possible, but electronics usually die, and it is expensive and is not sold separately now.
What are you all attacking the injectors. Forunki on tfsi are not much cheaper. Injection pump is a very reliable unit that runs for 300 thousand or more. Fuel consumption. I do not believe. I chose Mazda cx5 2.5 liters and ix35 2 diesel. With the same + - power and dynamics. Mazda on the test showed 21 liters. Hyundai 14. Salons 100 meters from each other drove a specialist on the same route. There was no bias because I wanted a Mazda, but it repulsed me that I had to wait 3 months and hull insurance for 130 thousand.
1- cheaper! Let's take the cost of one nozzle of a common rail diesel engine and compare it with the cost of an injector, a coil and a gasoline spark plug. Gasoline will be cheaper. I'm not even going to talk about TNVD. For a new high-pressure fuel pump on a diesel engine, you can take a used gasoline engine assembled. If we talk about oil changes, then generally the same thing. Fuel consumption only if advantage. And then on modern gasoline engines with 6-7 speed automatic transmissions, the consumption in the city is about the same as on a diesel engine. A difference of 1-2 liters is not significant.
1 is easier but not cheaper. 2.3 turbo lag on a diesel engine, I don’t notice the peak torque at 1700 rpm. 4. Interservice I have 15 thousand. Warranty 5 years. From the factory. How will the dealer charge me if everything is repaired at the expense of the factory. In the instructions, if you read it, there is no such thing that Russia is a priori difficult conditions. This is another myth. Skoda 1.8 dsg lexus nx200t badly docked?
Volunteer87
Are you comparing aspirated with a turbodiesel again?)))
I suggest you find a turbo gasoline with an approximate power. We will load both cars to the same weight and start the quarter. And everything will fall into place.
You are confusing. See the first gear on a gasoline ix35 on an automatic with a torque converter 4.162 main gear 3.648. The diesel has 4.252 and the main gear is 3.041. And where does the diesel have a higher multiplier in the end? In terms of dynamics, these two cars do not compare at all.