Power to the fuel pump.
If You think that replacing the injectors, fuel pump, putting RDT, flow rack, you can safely collapse into a comfy chair and sipping a brandy/beer/milk/soft drinks (delete as appropriate) — You are greatly mistaken.
In continuation of the Fuel system for internal combustion engines with supercharging. Some formulas., I can say that modernization initially "atmo" cars in the "turbo" is not quite simply screw turbine and rushed. It is actually a complete change in everything.
And of course this record can be useful not only to people obsessed with tuning, but also for ordinary citizens.
As the name implies, today we will focus on the power to the fuel pump. What is it and why is it so important?
The power to the fuel pump is a first line transmitting electric current from the power source to the consumer of this current.
Examined in the last record of the formula on the choice of the performance of the fuel pump, for example, that came Up in my head a capacity of several thousand horsepower, and chose the appropriate pump performance.
Stuck it in his car and rushed... somewhere...
There probably should say, that miracles do not happen, and all you need to pay, in the case of increasing the power of the car engine, he starts to eat more tapiwa.
In the case of increasing pump capacity, it begins to eat more electricity...
And what's up with that ? All physically correct and justified.
Also physically justified and the following statement
In accordance with the law of Joule, the amount of the generated heat in the conductor depends upon the quantity passing through the conductor current and the resistance value of the conductor. The more current and conductor resistance, the more the conductor is heated. Heat for heat, in this case in the shuffle. The value of the resistance of a conductor depends on its cross section. The larger section, the smaller the resistance of the conductor.
Why should the manufacturer waste copper wire of large cross section, if in the case of the use of the factory fuel pump wire size adequate?
That's right — why not. And it is economically justified :)
So. After reading a lot of "water" I see that You are ready to proceed with the laboratory work.
Start the engine and measure the voltage at clemo the battery and the chip power fuel pump.
We obtain the following input data:
The battery terminals = 13.6 Volts
Feature of fuel pump = 12.5 Volts
I want to scratch your nose and wistfully mutter, "Funny, Sherlock, why did You write quiet, and I'm so loud?"... "But it's elementary Watson, You're pissing on your shoes."
And it's drop at idle, when the current consumption of the pump is not the greatest.
Having considered the schedule Valpy, you can understand how much depends on the performance of the voltage, for example, when "sagging" of the voltage at 1 volt, at a pressure of 3 atmospheres, the pump capacity falls to 15% of par.
With the increased consumption of everything becomes worse.
Lost power to the pump slipped his performance dipped a pressure — have obedinilis mixture — increased temperature — changed the rate of combustion of the mixture — incorrect ignition timing — detonation — pistons strode down the pan ... :)
Just carefully looking at this chart, you will notice that consumption of the pump 14-15 amps, at that time, as a factory fuse is 7.5 A. the Present moment when You are rushing in 90градусном turn, and playing with gas, maintains the optimal angle of drift, suddenly, is burned native guard on busniness... ) Then we read one paragraph above :)
What to do ? Call the store and talk. I need to wire 10-12 squares to the question "Why?"
Answer for fuel pump...
Present to the astonished eye ) Some words and objections that do not need much, skip past the ears.
Buy power wire for car audio and fuse with the bulb.
Lay the wire feel like a electrician
The mass clings to the body where the thread is not very far
The fuse at the battery
Comparing the new and old wires
I think that's enough, although in fact the 12 squares is a redundant section... (enough for 6)
Right at the fuel pump, put the relay control which is assigned to the stock wiring (for the fuel pump fuse 7.5 A — for relay control with excess)
Bottleneck, it is the native chip terminals will not allow You to cram them into 12 squares instead of 2 :)
Good need to take the terminals(contacts) and compressing the greatest possible cross section (2,3,4 stock wire for example) and have them connect a thick cable
Proceed to the second part of the laboratory work
And measure the voltage at the battery terminals
on the chip and fuel pump
Power Fc was a lie but that's okay.
The important thing is that now the voltage drop at the fuel pump is less than 1 tenth of a Volt, and it is not really changing from the current load.
If You like feel free to press the button, if not much, waiting for the angry comments, to be able to rehabilitate in hard polemics ))
This worked for 5 or 6 years. Then began to fail, most likely the battery from about Tu Dai )
I threw it away and bought the same Chinese unit, but a newer model)
It is seen that a good student at school and physics was not missed :).
The issue is not the topic as a multimeter? Satisfied with his work? Also needed. If I say that's alright, I'll buy the same. Can I trust you :)
Just made my 6 quadrado, before it was 3, slightly warmed. The fall was not measured.
And I wrote that thing hard for a good need to take the terminals(contacts) and compressing the greatest possible cross section (2,3,4 stock wire for example) and there already to connect a thick cable.
But on such a small length neglected likely much of a drop of 1 tenth of a Volt, it is precisely this piece of wire.
What about the feature of the pump and the wires to the pump? Duplicate? Or the length is neglected?
I thought that's enough ))
Imagine the moment when You rush in 90градусном turn, and playing with gas, maintains the optimal angle of drift, suddenly, is burned native guard on busniness... )
but now I shall add
You should've painted the whole chain to the end))) Sagged pump lost pressure — I obedinilis mixture gas detona tion — the pistons were poured in the pan:)
Generally entertaining in the manual to the pump is all painted as a mandatory procedure. Only few of their performs.
No. The power to the pump always goes through the thick wire and relays.
surplus wire is now just controls the relay.
Not to sound too noob about the relay is not understood.
It includes a thick wire at the time of the dropout?
I agree that 12 "for the eyes".
but my opinion is that the optimal 6 squares And no longer need. just finding it was done a long time ago. and wanted to close the issue once and for all )
PS by the way I wrote about the fact that 12 is a lot )
2 squares with 14 amps a little, and 12 more than a shitload. 4 square optimally. Moreover, everything depends on the 2 square chips of the pump.
:)) first, do a sweep. the voltage drop may be all is well. The car is almost like new
streametch
The wire is not acoustic, and power, but nevertheless true, judging by the pictures used in car audio, that is, there can I buy it and the bulb too. 12 squares sickly stock! Overall I think it is possible and from 8 squares in the wire to lay.
Yes, so 6 is enough. the current load of around 7 amps per square.
The wire is not acoustic, and power, but nevertheless true, judging by the pictures used in car audio, that is, there can I buy it and the bulb too. 12 squares sickly stock! Overall I think it is possible and from 8 squares in the wire to lay.
just to nitpick I don't want to, but because you have done so is done, a normal car-care centers which thorough approach to solutions and to finding faults in St. Petersburg enough.
On stock pump, no problems with voltage drop was not.
So )) I understand that I want to nitpick though to what a thread, just don't understand why. I'm not a service, not a tuning Studio, I'm just one person who makes a car that would suit his needs. And in my entire life, I have not seen service with a more rigorous approach to detail...
when you configure YOKU there is a rule: "Everything should be properly (wires, actuators, engines, etc.). It turns out that you upgraded the machine with a pre-faulty wiring?, and then solved the problem, buddy! believe me is just the opposite with the beginning of everything is checked and repaired (if necessary even fully disassembled and assembled email. braid the wires, change the fuel lines) and then put other equipment and set up. there were a couple of occasions when stupid car equipment was put in working condition, then customers are left satisfied and did not ask to configure YOKU
Yes. and the regulator, and injectors, and half of the motor, and that's just on the setup YOKU — all stood up. It seems the fuel system is all right, but when you add fuel, the link on the PRA said that the fuel was flowing less than it should, and it is not clear why.
aaaaaa!, so perhaps the fuel pressure regulator was replaced? and the injectors were put more efficient? and YOKU accordingly, changes have been made?
Dyrokol
if there is such a large voltage drop it is necessary to seek the cause and not make a fuss, to put the second fuel pump relay?, most likely burnt contacts on the stock relay. I don't know what you've graduated from University, and we have explained that we have 1 mm2 10 — 11 amps ie in your version wire size 1 mm2 is quite enough, auto manufacturers in fact do the same calculations for the wire and not in vain laid on the power to the fuel pump wire 2 mm2, more, between other things, very often burned contacts on the internal chips of the fuel Cup, fuel Cup is a glass in which is mounted the fuel pump with the mesh strainer, the defect is treated by complete replacement of the glass pump, for future reference
Any opinion has the right to life.
The pump module and the contacts and. Because no change was not with him. A drawdown is gone.
Fuel pump relay was no carbon on the contacts. Was and now is )
Here are 2 relay's too much — then I agree. Wanted to redo the stock wire straight from the brains of open circuit, but there's no time.
But everything else can tell those people who are in the universities studied, and collided with the voltage SAG on the stock wiring for the installation of more efficient fuel pump. More productive 3 times ))
as far as I remember correctly the stock fuse always put at least 10 amps, so looking for oxidized connector or connection or a puncture wire.
So the point of the article is that the fuel pump of increased capacity with increased porublennym current
I know, but rather it is due to poor contact, better duck to find in what place was formed a bad contact in the wires, the relay, or the chip, and maybe it's now such a fashion, that would be wires in the car was more? increases the weight of the car, respectively car sags and begins to draw a body on the pavement, so it need a ton of wires then
if there is such a large voltage drop it is necessary to seek the cause and not make a fuss, to put the second fuel pump relay?, most likely burnt contacts on the stock relay. I don't know what you've graduated from University, and we have explained that we have 1 mm2 10 — 11 amps ie in your version wire size 1 mm2 is quite enough, auto manufacturers in fact do the same calculations for the wire and not in vain laid on the power to the fuel pump wire 2 mm2, more, between other things, very often burned contacts on the internal chips of the fuel Cup, fuel Cup is a glass in which is mounted the fuel pump with the mesh strainer, the defect is treated by complete replacement of the glass pump, for future reference
Can't tell, did not measure. long ago it was. And the question was acute, setting up, and nobody knew why, fuel is added and it is poured not in proportion with what added
the addict ) do not argue )) but 2.5 is not enough.
You all do not take into account one fact. The current load of the square is taken from the calculation that the allocation will not be enough heat to melt the braid. in case of cable laying in the open air, in the corrugation, the pipe, etc., these values are different because the cable is cooled at different.
So. 15 A 2 square vyderzhut without problems, but to warm the cable would, in any case, and heating of the cable — loss of energy to heat. that's all the math.
12 squares by 15? Yes, you addicts.
I would take the lead 2.5, and save up the money corrugation, that would be cable fine pave, and the fuse holder is normal.
On good it is necessary directly through the module to the pump wire to get well, or through bolts contacts to display.
Asfodel
In General as far as I know (and I'm a qualified electrician) wire 12 square does not happen, if only for spectrochem, but I have never seen. Standard section of electric wires 0,5. 0,75. 1. 1,5. 2,5. 4. 6. 10. 16. 25. 35. 50 and more but the car is irrelevant
bourgeois leads are marked as *awg. There are dimensions in inches, to be exact, in their shares. So the number of cross-sections *awg overlaps with ours, partly not.
Yeah, about the non-metric system I thought, just never had to deal with such wires. As they say live and learn.
Understand. and perhaps this cable is 10 squares. I do not remember exactly, it's something I suppose 5 years ago it was.
But You do not consider that we are not only the metric system of measurement. So for example, there is American wire gauge and AWG 9 and it means the section is about 13 squares.
In General as far as I know (and I'm a qualified electrician) wire 12 square does not happen, if only for spectrochem, but I have never seen. Standard section of electric wires 0,5. 0,75. 1. 1,5. 2,5. 4. 6. 10. 16. 25. 35. 50 and more but the car is irrelevant
jonjonni
table graphics. but there is something similar for boriskovo pump. at the WHA?
When I Gena CSATA changed to BOSCH, so just vpechetlenie that 5 horses added. :)
WHA does not pay attention. but on the other I have considered powerful pumps, like Bosch 044 saw
handy
often these beautiful leads are made of amegninou aluminum, it is better to buy an ugly, but copper wire :)
the situation from real life:
a good friend of mine, an engineer with great experience in the past, bought a cool audio system in the house. We sit, znachitstsa, consumption of brandy under the audition of "the Wall" Pink Floyd. And then my head comes a thought: "and let's find out what they are made of "oxygen free copper?" ". Found. Rather, its specific resistance. It was where*in the middle between the brass and lumino. Neighing, for the two engineers. And it leads purchased is not on the market, with all the holograms and certificates.
Agree ) to the electrical shop and bought ) as for section "+/-" 1-2 the square, in my case, not play a special role.
Lifehack
AHHH ))) I checked )) you have no idea how many sellers I have been brainwashed in the market, and a knife through his veins crawl ))
in the end had to buy an expensive cable (
+1000
and all because cables do not need to buy in auto parts stores, and stores electrical engineering. There are, however, also vengeance underestimate the cross section. But it is at least stengele can be measured.
AHHH ))) I checked )) you have no idea how many sellers I have been brainwashed in the market, and a knife through his veins crawl ))
in the end had to buy an expensive cable (
often these beautiful leads are made of amegninou aluminum, it is better to buy an ugly, but copper wire :)
not for nothing, I mean in the trunk кг50 handed... now not only the second battery to put with the music but the pump is giving the OK to eat
well, what are You people...
I'm probably in the message did not finish what they say about peak values. Was it worth it? If the conversation was about them. Although, as practice shows, it is probably worth it.
20 liters per hour in normal mode — you need to be very petracco. the average speed in the city is 15-30 km/h, for a total of under 20 litres per hour the ow 66-133 to the gallon. it's even Ural KrAZ choke.
if on the highway, then again it is correctly written is to blame will have in the region of 200+ km/h? often you have it happens?
SIG if th — I am aware that such a flow of 20++ per hundred around town at a leisurely pace. and on the track he just less. :)
ZZYZ although of course if you drive around town in first gear only, then you can believe 50 liters per hundred.
I just know the numbers and their meaning ))
Of course 80 liters is the peak value.
I will try to explain You the importance of the peak value. And it's not crushed stone in floor pedal for 8 hours.
Of course all this is exaggerated, I just take the extreme comparison to issues was less.
And so this.
1. The engine, which at the peak of his power consumes 80 liters per hour.
2. And let the pump with 10% of the stock outstanding at the peak of 88 liters per hour. (Actually, this is certainly not the case, as manufacturers, take stock at least 20-30%, but not as 800 liters per hour, 10 times... how dare You say that.
3. The manufacturer do not care much what kind of regime would drive the patient to feel sick or sneaker into the floor for 8 hours. It is important that all modes of the fuel system provided a secure supply of fuel.
The man always goes to work 2 hours a day, in regular mode, not really pressing on the sneaker. with the current consumption, well, let it be 20 liters per hour. and of course it has 4 — 5 times the margin the fuel pump
But at some point, he went to the peak engine power for 3 seconds, and it would be enough, if not a drawdown on the tension, which took 15% of the performance of the pump.
88 / 1,15 = 76 liters per hour, the consumption engine 80...
There is no need for 8 hours, there is no need even 3 seconds, at the speed of 6000-8000 rpm (where peak power is achieved) will have a few milliseconds to a mixture obedinilis and my friend killed the motor...
2 hours a day and a few milliseconds... you know the difference?
If "Americans", the importance of peak values is determined differently, well... Your right, take it as You please. Maybe just the laws of physics of your world different from mine. And arguing whose world rights — no desire
in addition to the Shaitan-Arba, MNU still have 2pcs Americans. I hope than the Americans differ from auto cheap Old world do not tell? :=)
as far as stereotypes, the knowledge of modern car does not negate the laws of physics. You need to know and understand.
80L/h is peak or continuous? not too much there? And how many people travel with the gas pedal pressed down by a stone to the floor, continuously for 8 hours?
This I mean that, in addition to specifying the frightening numbers, it would be nice to see how these numbers should be understood correctly.
Remember teploobmenniki on the fuel tubes with the appropriate lines from the air conditioner in the Mercedes and landrover, remember the grounding of the exhaust on the M5 every 20cm, remember the intercoolers with cooling from the air conditioning... And all this series machine... remember... And do You have something to remember, in addition to outdated stereotypes of Tazo ?
I knowingly gave the link to the entry about calculating the fuel pump, at 200 power, the engine consumes about 80 liters per hour, and it's NO stock...how much pump for your Shaitan Arba? 30? Stop living in the past.
a normal diet is important.
But the author somehow "forgot" that the performance of the pump 10 times exceeds the largest peak fuel consumption of the engine. This was done specifically to gasoline is continuously circulated along a trajectory: a pump — feed line — rail — pressure regulator the return line. The cooling ramp and not allowing the petrol to boil out there. The boiling point of gasoline +65гр, yeah. Remember the wet rag on the fuel pump "classics" in the heat, remember the return line on karpovyh the chisels.
Of course he will... That's already the cheapest akum, for 1500₽, 4 years becomes a consumable... :((((
well and Yes, 13.6 volts on the battery — is not enough. So batteries will be consumable.
this cable manufactured by Belden.
And Taiwan cables it is possible ) is not copper never, and Mednoye
This is a cable used to connect amplifier in car) I took the Ode is exactly the same. Then as a result of torture and several otherany switched to KG-35, more problems did not return.
This is not music cable. This is the power cable. is the car for 4 years.
Yes, and 15-20 ampere — not that very high current.
And to transfer the discharge I have is normal electrical.
The music cable is not a good solution, I already tried that when had the battery in the trunk. Even though it is thick, for high current it is not designed, often oxidized, because afraid of water, and there have been cases of otherany from the terminals. Take wire KG-10
12 kV wire is on the current is 120-140A.
The fuel pump enough wire 2.5 square.
Mass "to the thread on the body" is wrong. If so very important a proper diet is necessary and the negative pull on the battery.
I wrote that we must do good for another, and wrote that 10-12 this is redundant...
the main idea of this record to show that the size family of circuits depends on quite a lot
If it is absolutely correct, that was really the fuel pump in the chip to solder the wire. and not the tail connect. to make it removable-detachable — to make normal power connector next to the broken wire. Yes, if you replace just gemorroynye, but better.
and so too is a large difference in the cross section. if you are serious currents will otgorit one of the connections, or the chip will melt. because there will be the strong resistance in the circuit with all the consequences.
but if large currents are not planned to fence the 10-12 squares sense. there 4 enough for the eyes.
look and a question...drain voltage range XS what is on the pump...I bought a AEM 50-1000 when installing the pressure gauge at the rail shows on the twentieth 2.4 and 3.1...and 3.5 on the bust...and 4.1...necessary to climb to change the wiring?)))
What you call "voltage drop at the pump" is you actually the voltage drop on the wire from the positive terminal of the battery to the fuel pump.
And your event styling powerful posting good.
Well, it's not mystery fuse )) and some other on 30A. Cones just from mystery.
And by the way are well practiced, yet I have not frayed the cable, after the transfer of Akuma in the Luggage and not locked "+" to the body. Before as he was pagalos burned )) and nothing happened. I fixed not dochety and stuck the same pred ))
Cool!
For a full Feng Shui to throw nafig from the enclosure obscure glass flask company mystery and put a normal fuse. I'm in the same misterivskih case put before from kakog industrial equipment, the guys in elektrotovary picked up. And the native of such a fuse I collapsed in my arms when I got it )
Geez... why did I read it? Now my brain is busy, like on your car to make such a modification :-) trying to Dissuade myself that I have all the stock wiring and I have enough :-)
And what pump ? walbro ? I think AEM pomenee to eat because he is also with the impeller as the flow of walbro another type.
Relay any more than 15 degrees with the stock. Well, for example, from 20A.
The wire in the area of 6 squares will be enough. And see that the connection was reliable. And then bask will be in the worst place
Tell me, pump AEM maximum current consumption 15A how cross section of the desired wire and relay how many amps?
so the drain resistor is still and at idle gives such a low voltage. or you do not have?
I agree, I thought about it, but decided until you begin to do this car — electric car, it is pointless to burden. But when ice throw, put a bunch limitstate batteries, then КГ150 delay )
So we had to immediately back КГ150 stretching, to exactly sure))) And lithium on segments of 1000 Amps in the trunk
I thought so too ) rather on the fact of it is, the section is sufficient, but the more area the less the loss of current. In fact, enough for 6 squares for the eyes. But I did so a second time not to shift, who knows what my mind will come? There may be two pump and 1000L.with
And inside in the flask was changed wires? And th such a thick wire? 15 amps is sufficient 2 wire square copper)))
That relay is weak. It was necessary relays to control the winches to use, those that have SUVs.
inserting my "5 cents":
1) I do not know how the Japanese (but like the rumors are steeper than the Germans in all ))) and here are the numbers my car:
about 200-250l/h can the pump, the border with the pedal to the floor in the initial seconds shows about 70 l/h consumption, now of about 25L/h already. if I can drive an hour holding the pedal to the floor (when the consumption machine is about 25L/h and the ability of the pump to about 200L/h) — well I do not know ))) but in fact 175л/h more stock there is, or rather it is something that will cool my system...
2) there is still a question of physics what is the recommended voltage on the pump 12? 13? 14? for example, to measure the drawdown of the voltage at galogennyh — will be even steeper if you want to do directly powered? Yes will be brighter, but not for long ))
well, for recapctha respect ))
I think how many idiots among the engineers of the automotive industry? All allowed 1 mm kV to the pump, and the head is not warm when you're lean the pistons in the pan will collapse...
Suggest to read about the Fuel Pressure Regulator that is present in most fuel injected cars.
The mixture of air and gasoline can not vosplameneniya at more than 8 to 1, so the tank is eliminated. And right at the gas tank you should have a sealed cover ), otherwise in the cabin will always smell like gasoline. but in any case, withdraw the relay from the gas tank thick wires — it rules
Thanks for the idea, all it did, now the fuel pump is 14.1 In, not the 12.3. One note: "Right at the fuel pump set relay" — at first I did, and then presented as the fumes gradually filled the inside of the relay, and once again turning... a spark will cause a kaboom, redid all relays brought out to the salon for the baffle under the seat.))