Why is it so off the hinges suspension.
Continued from here.
Hello! Each car has at least a few ball joints. To steering (for example, joints, steering ends) and suspension (ball joints, hinges of racks of the stabilizer, floating silent blocks).
Changing once again these details each time wondered why some joints serve many tens of tcm, while others barely make it to the first ten? Design is all about the same, too.
Another observation — from the stabilizer link first fail bottom hinges. The top hinge is still as fit as a fiddle, and lower for pounding. The load they have essentially the same, and fail is lower.
1.
The third observation — tie rods fail much less frequently than the stabilizer, although the conditions of their work too is not easy, and the size of the joints is about the same.
So what's the deal? People's experience States that "the duster is alive — alive and hinge". But I buy quality suspension parts, mostly original, with anthers of good rubber, and in all my experience of operating I have never had one torn boot. All anthers whole, everything looks fine, but the joint still knocks.
2.
Maybe all the fault of the shock loads that break the hinge? But by removing the dust cover from banging joint, we see a very different picture — the hinge does not die from shock, and against corrosion and abrasive wear caused by the ingress of water and road dirt.
Full sizeIsn't it strange? The duster intact, and rusty hinge. But as they say, the devil is in the details! The answer came, as always, by accident. In the previous entry "Overview of racks of the stabilizer of different companies" I stand compared six different companies, 5 imported and 1 domestic. About the Patriotic front would be a separate issue, but all 5 of import pillars was done quite efficiently, outright schlock was observed. Checking the smoothness of the ball of the finger at different stands, found a big difference in the tightness of the boot-ball from the stands of different companies. When the deviation of the finger in the end position, one of legs, the joint remains sealed, the other was a crack through which to enter joint water and sand!
I think this is the reason. And this, incidentally, explains the fact that the first goes down the bottom hinge, it is closer to the road, and the first takes care of all road grime.
In this I see the reason that tie rod ends go longer than the stabilizer link. First, the tie rods are usually higher from the road than the stabilizer link. Second, they usually turned the finger down, i.e., the accumulation of water in the hinge more difficult. Stands at the hinge is horizontal and the water remains trapped in the duster. Third, the steering ends of the finger joint, usually tapered and without a lip, so the duster is additionally drawn in the cone of the pivot pin, and boarding a plane knuckle, and does not leak.
My observations I outlined in the notes on the photo. See for yourself, draw your own conclusions. Of the SIX, only TWO racks provide the tightness of the hinge! Photos are arranged from the worst to the best samples. In the end my choice is to stand Sidem production and Lemforder, the other sooner or later fills with water and will die, some quickly, others a little later. And not Lemforder CTR Korean, and Taiwanese, with the logo in the form of the letter L in a triangle. In absolute outsiders — stand Zekkert. And this is all despite the fact that all imported stand in "iron" is made solidly!
I hope my observations will be useful to you when selecting parts.
All have a good week. bye.
Full size4. Zekkert.
Full size5. Zekkert.
Full size6. Zekkert.
Full size7. Links Master.
Full size8. Links Master.
Full size9. Links Master.
Full size10. GMB.
jpg class=c-lightbox-anchor c-pic-zoom data-action=lightbox.zoom data-size=1000,750 rel=noopener target=_blank>
Full size11. GMB.
Full size12. GMB.
Full size13. CTR.
Full size14. CTR.
Full size15. Lemforder (Taiwan).
Full size16. Lemforder (Taiwan).
Full size17. Lemforder (Taiwan).
Full size18. Sidem.
Full size19. Sidem.
Full size20. Sidem.
A more detailed overview of the domestic racks Master Links and the part numbers will be presented in separate entries.
Cm. also:
1. The Famous Lemforder. The fee for the brand.
2. Overview of racks of the stabilizer GMB, CTR, Lemforder, Sidem, Zekkert, Links-Master.
3. Overview of racks of the stabilizer Akitaka, Doohap, Just Drive, Meyle, TRW.
4. Domestic stabilizer Links-Master.
5. Stabilizer, under the anthers.
6. Lubrication for universal joints steering and suspension.
7. How to service the ball joints.
8. What do the manufacturers to reduce component life.
9. Review of the stabilizer link 555.
10. Overview of racks of the stabilizer of RTS.
11. Defective anthers CTR.
Razum1974
By the way reread the article many times and I agree with everything stand ordered sadzhem, Lemforder was not twisted all of them, just the slots was not, I think, maybe suspension(traction lugs) to order from this company?
I stand stab lemforder, 25 thousand have been no problems. Recently arm has put this company and tie rods. The service said they are the norm.
Only met such a thing, that 5-digit SKUs they have and the 7 digit is perepakovannye and there can be anything. For the price the way the 5 digit is a little more expensive and not everywhere.
I ordered the Sidem levers Assembly for Suzuki Vitara, mind is not worse than the original. But the ball joint Sidem on the Ford Focus I do not really like, some unpretentious or something. So I think, obvious mistakes with Sidem will not, but all the details are different.
Petrovich35
Lemforder became a packager of other people's details. Perhaps the store is not to blame for what's in the box are from Lemforder parts from other manufacturers. I was not the first time with this encounter.
By the way reread the article many times and I agree with everything stand ordered sadzhem, Lemforder was not twisted all of them, just the slots was not, I think, maybe suspension(traction lugs) to order from this company?
I think normal is like, TRW are good parts. Only lube now preferably all hinges add the little plant lay.
In General, put TRW. The master gave those who stood too TRW set, they're all normal except the one on the right side, which "crashed", it turned out that there was some other detail, just number, without abbreviations TRW. I have not seen the last time that I set. And so, I have traveled and traveled.
It turns out, in the box Lemforder could be anything. Too bad that all of these stores, nothing in stock, so you can see. So, you can choose between TRW and STR, because in different stores warned that could be in the box. What to choose between these two manufacturers(the price is about the same)?
Thank you, the essence of the correspondence is clear. I looked at the ZF website www.zf.com/corporate/en_d...igures/facts_figures.html
Indeed, in may 2015, the group ZF has acquired TRW. So they have the right to sell TRW under its other brands.
Petrovich35
What CTR I meet in boxes from Lemforder. It's not a concern, but they are long-term partners for parts for Asian models.
That's what I was told in the store(correspondence):Brand Lemforder part of the company ZF, which also belongs to TRW.
The company Lemforder is a manufacturer of auto parts and also some parts perepolnyaet from other manufacturers.
In the event of an overload of production capacity, the order may be placed with a third party manufacturer.
Much lemforder produces independently, much just a Repack, so do many famous manufacturers in the past.
Potrebiteli about it, they certainly don't notify.
Many firms have ceased to exist, many will integrate for example the SNR and NTN.
Due to the fact that to keep the whole ruler, on all cars no firm can afford.
The same Lemforder for example does not produce self-details for vehicles of Korean and Japanese market, they place orders from the Korean manufacturer CTR.
Even ordering the original, in most cases it will come only the packaging, but inside there will be a product of another company.
In the modern world, alas, it's not just spare parts, globalization has affected everything.
In any case, Vyacheslav, if You are not satisfied with ordered items, You can return them.
About not held of our communication, I was not busy, and were really busy.
And lastly, this is my correspondence:
Unfortunately, many manufacturers cheat, none of them accommodates the complete information about the details. The rest of your order will go to the office today, will check and let You know
If interested, you can give a link to the entire conversation.
I took the CTR and didn't hesitate, the quality was good. Stabilizer went 30-40 tcm, ball joints and tie rod ends 100 tkm and more. But now the CTR isn't save at all, see for example www.drive2.ru/b/3001448/
What CTR I meet in boxes from Lemforder. It's not a concern, but they are long-term partners for parts for Asian models.
Went to another online store and asked about this school, I was told: in cartons should be Lemforder Lemforder, plants may be different, but not like any of TRV, at worst CTR, such as one concern, I don't know. Today back, I will try to book with others
Lemforder became a packager of other people's details. Perhaps the store is not to blame for what's in the box are from Lemforder parts from other manufacturers. I was not the first time with this encounter.
Petrovich35
TRW usually good parts did, maybe now the quality is not the same. Lemforder me too long.
Yesterday the order came in a box of Lampeter— TRV, returned everything back, do not want more TRV. The difference in price two times. Actually, I want to change the auto parts store, comes not always need to look at the contents, not upakovku. I tell them: I'm crying not small money and want to get what I ordered and not very good (debatable) counterparts. Smile and shrug. Today waiting for the next order lemforder - TRV, I will be back. It seems they like to carry back and forth.
and there was the name or just the box from them was, and what was inside is not known? I ordered lemforder, and it is TRW, but in the box lemforder.
Razum1974
Now it is clear. Until last year, all were native, I drove 130 miles so, last year put the rack thrust, the tips of TRW, the end— all killed with it didn't get more than 20 t km, but the ball was put lemforder, they are very much alive
I thrust steering lemforder were already 80 tyk, very much alive!
Such an event can only be welcomed. I usually do it on the street, crawling on his belly around the machine.)) From the pit in the garage but don't want to fill the garage.
This every may I clean the bottom of the Pit with special chemicals well and washed all the elements khodovki)) to wash off and corrosion and winter mud with reagents )
Tie rods don't accept the blows of the suspension, well, or take them to a lesser extent than the ball of the stabilizer. Ball stabilizer rigidly hold the arm and not give him telepatsya anywhere, which is why they are constantly in the load and the anthers are constantly open, and the tie rods and the ball is usually swinging pretty freely and we go to a greater extent directly, so the anthers are closed.
Me so it seems)
And because manufacturers know about it, but making quality parts is not profitable for a long time will go.
lysy77
Can wrap the entire joint with a plastic bag, then just sand with water will not reach? )))))
Well post, as usual, to bookmark!
Sealant can.
Well then it is better for the whole car wrapping in several layers.)) I think it's too much, much safer will help a simple measures described here www.drive2.ru/b/2988841/
Can wrap the entire joint with a plastic bag, then just sand with water will not reach? )))))
Well post, as usual, to bookmark!
on imprese at all the balls on the racks there . seen threads and alterations of balls for the type of zubarovsky bushings
Looked. This guy speaks of another factor — the wear in process of operation with the shortage of lubrication. Maybe his theory is correct. We here consider an entirely different factor — the leaky boot, which leads to accelerated wear due to contact with the joint water and dirt.
Thank you. At the end of this entry are a few links on my articles + other blog entries.
In General, the hinges of which climbs a lubricant and there are gaps you need to return, not sell... the Only case where was the need to save money and get out is the siege of Leningrad bread... all the rest to return and put padavano in one place!
It is a good option, but so few people bother. I just replaced the grease and ensures tightness of the joint.
You can not pierce through the upper cuff and the pump. The puncture may then crack to develop.
Do you just push in a syringe of motor oil, the needle is thicker, with a dropper.Popping the boot, squeeze out the oil.Do with tips, ball.Liquid oil easily penetrates, is under the gum, with the exception of the upper ball, but they can.
Homemade can be done with a margin of safety, that's for sure. But not all are so sensitive, and easy to make, too, is not at all.
custom grave will cure that sore for a long time: the logs to him to weld two silent at an angle as in the photo and using bolts fasten to the stabilizer arm, the stabilizer will start to work differently, checked on his car, mileage 95 thousand km, the Lacetti front heavy stabilizer to an average of 30 thousand km As s/h porshivy, and once cut to seven years ride
I noticed when I had R14 195C on an ordinary piece of iron is not wide, then
serious for longer went. How changed to lightplay steel 235/65 R16 hurry to leave. Something like this.
Well, modern machines on the same principle of collecting and consumables. This is all done intentionally. What would you invest, invest and invest again. Make the eternal is not profitable. As an option supply of polyurethane. But he haven't tried. And to assert that their use can not yet. Useful article.
Clear. Simply it was on the racks of the stabilizer, so surprised. About agree supports struts, and springs — as if slipped.
To change the spring and strut together with racks of the stabilizer is unnecessary.
put CTR, so on one of the auto Stoics staba already walking more than 100 000 km, the car the new owner and he has not changed them...Just in this car is always serviceable the rack is not grounded springs, and all bushings intact...as all changed! It's very simple, dead strut and change the spring and bearing and bearing support!
It's all stabilizer, and Chery, and vases, just to be on the vases are short and therefore looked like eggs.
Thanks for the explanation. Differed in opinion with the special chassis. Tiggo 5 "eggs" not, their function is performed by the rack (front or rear) stabilizer (roll bar)?
"Eggs" called stabilizer VAZ-2108.2110 for some resemblance due to the short connecting rod. So many people are traditionally so-called, and other stabilizer, although they are on the body does not like.))
Petrovich! To clarify, pliz, something I'm confused: the stabilizer link (front) and "eggs" are the same thing?
Yeah, about the finger it is not seen. It happens sometimes. But I'm not very much of the eversion, so that rules)
Thank you, I realized, you know about such details like "No wear". They are not for all designs of pendants fit the case, the finger turns with the meat, and it needs a ball joint. Maybe someday you will fall, until it was necessary.
This polyurethane stabilizer link. There are no ball joints, and consequently the boot. Feels harder than usual. I have 3rd year standing. You have a good report. Maybe those You hit)
Of course, the key word here is integrity. If the boot is cracked, no gaps will not help.
Petrovich35
For 10 years, not counting, of course, but based on my observations, a sealed joint should last much longer. Thank you for rating!
Just yesterday changed dead-the rack of the rear stabilizer. Died bottom hinge, BUT even on a dead hinge did not appear the slightest gap between the finger and the boot, no matter what direction I did not reject. But the boot in the wide part of cold, and, as a consequence, the cracked, well, then sand and water did the trick... So even if the new front there is no gap between the finger and the boot, it gives no guarantee for long life of the hinge.
Thank you. Yamato is not the most popular brand, I have never dealt with this, but from the reviews, the quality is satisfactory, closer to decent than indecent. Cm. for example, steering tips:
www.drive2.ru/l/3844987/
www.drive2.ru/l/6848396/
Great article! Unable to comment on anything about the stands of the company Yamato?
I will say this whatever the car not to save the original parts ! Further, it is especially important for Moscow and European part of Russia where the winter pour reagents! Want to have the bottom even after five years of perfect from the factory? And of course, this procedure extends the life of the above described nodes from BJ's! In the spring in may (I personally every may) come in one office in Moscow ( In Russia there are many) lift on the lift car I removed all the wheels and wash the bottom special alkaline compounds! So much so that it shines like from the factory ! Washed everything even the same ball and so on!
None your car on the bottom that neither nor wear and will think this is nonsense and a waste of money!
Just wash the bottom and be happy!
lugs replaced with "for 135", ie, one at 70, another at about 90 :)
but "bones" on XL me positively surprised.
Resource > 100 tkm for push-quite ordinary result. A stabilizer, according to my statistics, on average, longer than 30-40 tcm do not go, with a few exceptions.
> tie rods fail much less often
> what a rack of the stabilizer
Not the fact!
On the one hand RAV4'95 for 150 thousand times 6 bone change, and tips live, ball joints alive.
on the other hand OutXL'07 over 135 thousand replaced both tips, one ball, and bones ideally)
Nicholas, I have not only the Chinese machine, and even Korean and Japanese. They have me for a long time and bought new, so full of its own statistics. On average, the stabilizer link on our roads go 30-40 tcm, regardless of brand. In the example shown on a photo 1-3 parts KIA Sorento. And the new parts were bought for a Toyota RAV4. So the "Chinese" factor is not to blame. If Your car these parts are more is just wonderful, I would not have refused.
just you, the machine is Chinese, I ezdiyu for five years, schochu on the borders, and lying is not slow, it's just shadows on the pavement, and the car is not asking to change these ball, mileage is 170,000, the third set cales changing the spring changed the air pump from the front... the ball at all elastic retaining rings...
I believe that the only way of driving affects all of these joints. Over 534 thousand kilometers, not a single joint has not changed and is not knocking in my car. The only boot I damaged one unfortunate mechanic on the ball when you replace the wheel bearing. On the same day, on arrival home I fitted the boot nylon sock (stuffed more litala) and the ball after it has 42 thousand km of perfectly kept
there are kits sold, so that, in principle, the node itself was considered "eternal" )
In Soviet textbooks each phrase had a rationale, it just would not print. Although the natural deterioration still exists, I do not believe in eternal details.
I remember in Soviet textbook "Details of cars", wrote: "the Resource ball joint is not limited, provided the whole of the boot!"
So all monitor the state of the anthers and do not allow hitting all won in joints ))
vvn903
Why buy the Taiwan lemforder when he German?
right now, a lot of things under the brand name lamp made in China
A little secret. To sell take only those items and where it is cheaper.A quick ROI.As with products.Over the past six months, I have returned seven times items purchased via the VIN number.Such a mess in parts I never saw!There are quality parts, but their take is not profitable.Them.And we, the users-side!
Be sold in online stores not specified country of origin. In the Asian model it is, mostly, the production of Korea, Taiwan.
Thank you. About grease I have written separately, see www.drive2.ru/b/2978773/
Thank you! This is a great article! Now the manufacturers of parts you will hate you ))
the author is called programmable wear ), congratulations you've passed to the next level, not beneficial to anyone to do the eternal parts
Yes, with a thump to drive it a little, it is necessary to do an audit of the suspension.
After 150K mileage of the original, put lumpy... I don't know, but they Bud soggy(( elastic band in the dust all the time. you will need to take that as a Yes, and then just before knocking( and he just passed 10K(
So I'm doing it. Collected in Excel opinions from comments and articles on spare parts. Here only one it is impossible to grasp such a amount of information. Without the help of the rest of the percentage coverage will be very low.
Petrovich35
We might want to resist them, modifying parts.)
Or collecting Analytics forces of the auto society. It is a pity that it is not interesting:(
It means that somewhere in another place walking. But I'm such designs have not personally seen.
Yes, but how?because the lever when the suspension stroke trying to walk more and provoleta and stab back and forth with one ball should vilakati welding...
I meant such.but I do not understand how it works, because the movement of the stabilizer Vernis he seems to be udlinyaetsya that karachiwalla forward backward
it is interesting and there are a rack of the stabilizer with only one ball?(if attached to the lever), because on many machines it has a right to life...
According to my information, Moog frequently ordered items at the same Sidem. Choose one of them for the price.
What stabilizers MOOG will tell you encountered? Just substitute my choices are limited at staban could, the jungle and WOS river, lim...Steering the jungle and WOS river set, swag did not dare.
Lubricant for all joints exactly the same. I now for the experiment used three lubrication: SHRB-4, Synthetic Chevron Ulti-Plex, Ravenol Marinefett. To pull the cuff of the boot, you can use any suitable tool that will not damage the boot. For example, I use a small flat screwdriver with rounded tip (to not cut the rubber).
Understood, ie it is likely that you can gaspricewatch.Another question grease tkaya same as the rack and than to delay the boot to gaspricewatch, I read somewhere that hex-2-3ой possible?
Not the fact, ball and steering tips on the top cuff of the boot are usually not crimped, as in most cases there is a finger cone.
With Sidem add without disassembly is unlikely to succeed, the dust cover sits very tight. So assess their strength, can then put the ring back, need some training.
Yes, you can, there is no fundamental difference. But I'm trying so hard not to do the factory grease should be removed so as not to mix with the new. And the worked joints, where the old grease is dirty, moreover, it is best to disassemble.
Yes I other your read on the racks of the stabilizer. There is a quick method with the syringe, it is possible by this method and with ball and tips to do?
Max Sparrow
Not so long ago started to keep a notebook with the manufacturers of different components, consumables and liquids ) and then is forgotten.
Similarly, the long lead already. Plus started table Excel reviews with manufacturers.
I just recently bought a cosmic grandfather, he's a ball there in a bag shook and wire secured. Looks of course Achtung simple, but all living things dry and comfortable)))
Think the sealant will be of little help. The boot moves relative to the ball stud, so the water will still get in. The o-ring is more reliable.
can silicone sealant to cover the joint to bend at a large angle, and push down there (to the gap) of silicone sealant or glue, or something similar?
It turns out when you buy any of the suspension unit having a hinge, it makes sense to check in this way, the boot for leaks. Thank you for your work!
BayerMotWerke
the plot is))so set with a thread Fabi/swag and not worried
To lubricate a little, it still rings to enhance. Yesterday I received staba stand firm Kamoka, filled grease 49590-22C00 from anther CV joints Hyundai. Posted in the cold -15 degrees this morning and shook fingers. Was ring is weak, small ring tightly grips the boot. Warm work fine, boot sealed, and on a frost dubeet boot and stretches the ring. The kamoka chose because she only left the ribs on the finger and the body to boot, for my car. Rubber rings in the cold can't keep the duster.
Good observation, but I have a dead strut for clamping the ring(don't remember the firm) it was iron and triturated boot exactly where he stood .Stand took place less than a year)
After 2 years reading your reports, thanks for the detailed analysis and reflection) very nice to read, and most importantly very much for myself learned
Yes. And perhaps it was the pressure Karcher makes this infiltration particularly effective. To put experiemnt Yes sorry forces and racks.
I think the water penetrates through the openings between the finger and the cuff of the boot.
But the anthers on them were the norm. Not torn. A very strange story. You can certainly assume that the sink is in the upper joints blows out under pressure — they are the fingers turned out, but in theory they should close the plate fixing
Yes, the bottom location of the hinge is not the main factor, the main thing here all the same tightness.
Here, you can read my article on this topic www.drive2.ru/b/2890221/
There under the photo 16 a couple of other links.
Yes, Lemforder brand dear, only recently they have become and packaging under its own brand parts from other manufacturers. For example, in the Asian auto brand in the package Lemforder you can often find parts of Korean production CTR. It's not fake, just ZF/Lemforder and CTR partners.
Friend works in the service is also always advised Lemforder lasts for a long time, and fails not only due to moisture, and due to our lovely roads.