Overview of racks of the stabilizer of different firms (GMB, CTR, Lemforder, Sidem, Zekkert, Links-Master).
Full sizeHello! Since my fleet of three vehicles and annual mileages range from 15 to 35 tcm per year, it has accumulated some statistics resource of spares. Today we will focus on the racks of the stabilizer. Most often I change them on your KIA Sorento, approximately every 30-40 tcm. And not because the parts are bad, but because the machine is being used in the city and on the highway, all year round and in all weather conditions.
Mainly used to buy South Korean CTR stand, because this firm supplies the original suspension parts for Hyundai/KIA. As soon nearing the planned revision of the suspension of my other car, Suzuki and Chery, had the idea to compare the quality of stands from different manufacturers. Stand was bought six different manufacturers, five imported and Russian production. Chose the firm on the principle of "make and sell", i.e. tried to avoid the packers. In the end, selected the following firms:
1. GMB (Japan).
2. CTR (South Korea).
3. Lemforder (Germany).
4. Sidem (Belgium).
5. Zekkert (like Germany).
6. Links Master (Russia, Tver).
It is clear that in the era of world globalization, the actual production can be located quite far from the headquarters of the company, but I tried to choose firms that produce or in your own country, or declare the control of the production process of their foreign subcontractors. So, in two different racks, under the brand name Lemforder in one case turned out to be the rack CTR South Korean and the other Taiwanese with the logo "L".
Price tags on imported stand as of March 2016 are in the range of 500-700 RUB apiece, domestic rack is much cheaper, about 250-300 rubles. View whether to pay for imports.
This recording presents a photo review of these stands stabilizer, a photo with my notes below. Preliminary conclusion — all imported stand done carefully, while domestic product is made more sloppy, and I even dedicate a separate entry. The hinges have all the racks move smoothly, without jamming, better than a CTR, Lemforder, GMB and Sidem, a little worse at Zekkert and Master Links, but I don't think this is critical, because the hinges are still new and not developed.
Also in the process of learning arose a guess, why do some firms hinges are much longer than others. Despite the fact that outwardly all imported rack look worse than others, next time I would buy only TWO of them. But more about that in the next part, to be continued!)
Cm. also:
1. Causes of failure of the joints.
2. The Famous Lemforder. The fee for the brand.
3. Overview of racks of the stabilizer Akitaka, Doohap, Just Drive, Meyle, TRW.
4. Domestic stabilizer Links-Master.
5. Stabilizer, under the anthers.
6. Lubrication for universal joints steering and suspension.
7. How to service the ball joints.
8. What do the manufacturers to reduce component life.
9. Review of the stabilizer link 555.
10. Overview of racks of the stabilizer of RTS.
11. Overview of racks of the stabilizer of Delphi.
All have a good week and descripuon suspension, talk to you later!
1. GMB (Japan). A well-known firm, makes parts related to suspension, steering, water pumps. I.e. joints and bearings — her profile. Stand expected, very neat workmanship, and complete what is attached to the bag with grease.
Full size2. GMB.
Full size3. GMB.
Full size4. GMB.
2. Lemforder-CTR (South Korea). In the package under the brand name Lemforder was the stand of the South Korean firm CTR. This is what I wrote in the previous entry "the Famous Lemforder". So to avoid the "packers" did not work, and we will assume that for the test was bought strut CTR. Firm has proven over the years made stand is also very neat, besides she has the most smooth of all the samples in the course of the ball stud.
Full size5. In the package with the brand Lemforder can be anything.
Full size6. CTR.
Full size7. CTR.
Full size8. CTR.
3. Lemforder-L (Taiwan). On the front is a logo in the form inscribed in a triangle of the letter "L". What kind of firm cooperating, don't know, but to the product no complaints, everything is done carefully. Move the ball stud smooth.
net/9a16726s-960.jpg width=960 height=720 itemprop=contentUrl>Full size9. Lemforder-L.
Full size10. Lemforder-L.
Full size11. Lemforder-L.
4. Links Master (Russia, Tver). A rare example of a purely domestic details for suspension saturated with foreign cars. Judging from the appearance, these racks were really not made to order abroad, namely in Russia. Moreover, the company is making a stand and nothing more. Illusions about quality not built, bought more out of curiosity. On the website of the manufacturer of many painted on the super design and super materials, which make these racks, so you'll dedicate them a separate, more detailed review. But the appearance of them is quite unsightly, against imported competitors. The ball stud is not loose, but if loose, move significantly lighter than that of the imported stands. A more detailed overview of these stands, see here.
Full size12. Links Master.
Full size13. Links Master.
Full size14. Links Master.
5. Sidem (Belgium). I first became acquainted with the details of the suspension of the company Sidem, when picking levers for your Suzuki Grand Vitara, and after studying the websites of different manufacturers, opted for Sidem. Firm specializiruetsya for details of the suspension and steering, has a decent story, and the production is located in Europe. The brand is not particularly familiar, but as they say, "widely known in narrow circles". I've seen package two kinds of design, are the products of two plants Sidem (see here). As previously purchased the levers, the rack is made carefully, no complaints. Move the ball stud soft.
Full size15. Sidem.
Full size16. Sidem.
Full size17. Sidem.
6. Zekkert (Germany). For me personally, this brand new, recently I bought the oil filter from this company, the quality I liked, I decided to order a sample and stand. The firm trades all in a row, and filters, and parts, so it's possible that it's just a packer, was in Germany. However, of the six purchased samples only Zekkert the anthers were installed protective shipping plastic caps, and do stand done carefully. Also from the other samples, they are distinguished by a "two-tier" coupling rod and use white lithium grease from other companies grease transparent. Overall the impression was favourable, but the final conclusions will make the second part of the review (it was later revealed that the anthers are not sufficiently sealed, see part I).
Full size18. Zekkert.
Full size19. Zekkert.
Full size20. Zekkert.
Cm. also:
1. Causes of failure of the joints.
2. The Famous Lemforder. The fee for the brand.
3. Overview of racks of the stabilizer Akitaka, Doohap, Just Drive, Meyle, TRW.
4. Domestic stabilizer Links-Master.
5. Stabilizer, under the anthers.
6. Lubrication for universal joints steering and suspension.
7. How to service the ball joints.
8. What do the manufacturers to reduce component life.
9. Review of the stabilizer link 555.
10. Overview of racks of the stabilizer of RTS.
11. Overview of racks of the stabilizer of Delphi.
Oleg, thanks for the rating. Personally I while stopped on Sidem is optimal in terms of price/quality. Cm. also www.drive2.ru/b/2978773/
Thank you, all cleverly written! But in the end levers which company is better to take, quality? Thank you!
Need metal washers for uniform clamping, if the nut on the design, without petticoats. If nuts the skirt washer is not needed. Plastic rings prevent samoorganizowaniu nuts.
Washers, iron, for nut
And the plastic inside the threads of the nut what by the way?
Ask, what about pucks speech. You about the plastic rings embedded in the nuts?
Hello! Noticed that the nuts that some manufacturers without washers, is washers, do they?
I also strut stabiliser Sidem liked. From Lemforder on the packaging of the traditional bird is present, but inside can be anything now.
As Lemforder, the German company and produce these products I European cars, but for Japan, Korea etc do not produce but invest those producers who delivered to the conveyor, which in fact you turned out=)about the letter "L" can not say anything, do Lemforder on their parts stash as puts on the box, the bird in the triangle right now, maybe something has changed. Personally, I like the stand Sidem, but the problem is the weak boot, breaks, gets wet, the mud and the hinge fails. Walked the racks I have 1.5-2 years when the same TRW visited the most.
Yes, and if you have a large number of lubrication even when not full of integrity goes much longer.
I have a Volvo 960 all complain that the rack does not okazyvayut and 7 10тык.
I took one of the cheapest — GP dismantled, filled grease... for 4 years and 50 t km — everything is fine))
Yes, there is as lucky. About TEKNOROT parts reviews there are both good and bad. I think the other part depends on the same firm can do, like ball joints and bad bushings.
I have over 5 years of ownership the car Seat Ibiza changed sets of 10 racks staba. From the simplest China to TRW, MOOG, Lemforder. The mileage on the car wasn't great, but they stupidly were constantly apart. And then accidentally bought a rack of the type Turkey TEKNOROT, and lo and behold passed more than 30,000, and sold the car with them, and talked recently with a new owner, said even that does not change all is well.
At Teknorot reviews are not very, CTR lately I've gone off the quality has fallen. On the Mazda in the package Lemforder is likely to lie the same CTR, they are a partner in Asian models. With Monroe was not the case. So myself would have chosen Sidem, the quality I was completely satisfied.
CHOOSE THE MAZDA 3 BL BETWEEN
TEKNOROT FO469 380Руб.,
LEMFORDER 3201001 650rub.,
SIDEM 3266 650 RUB.
, MONROE L10611 710руб,
CTR 780 RUB
Don't prompt, how long back (long) stabilizer do you have? And then I lift my short, tears.
Saw a lot of good reviews about Qsten, but he is not yet exploited. The plan is to purchase and study.
Edyapsk
What would the seal be improved and the part is long gone, since already bought... Wrote a letter to the CTR that would have sent me photo ball and a rack of the stabilizer on the Lacetti closeup, and the fact that the box to examine for fakes, it is necessary to do the details... And asked where to write and call in the case of the sale of counterfeits... Otherwise we do not defeat these monsters, fake spare parts and lowers us on the headstock...
Well, the answer came with recommendations ?..
Yes, I understand why, I mean why do it? In the form in which they go stand staba your ctr 70-80 thousand nursed.
What would the seal be improved and the part is long gone, since already bought... Wrote a letter to the CTR that would have sent me photo ball and a rack of the stabilizer on the Lacetti closeup, and the fact that the box to examine for fakes, it is necessary to do the details... And asked where to write and call in the case of the sale of counterfeits... Otherwise we do not defeat these monsters, fake spare parts and lowers us on the headstock...
sibers42rus
Good time! Want to share an observation. 2 years ago bought for my Extral stand staba CTR and they, like You, was without the top o-rings set, white nut with a skirt.
Recently again bought the same bones and interestingly the top ring is, and the nuts are black. As bought not to itself, the package has not been opened, a picture of the phone did not work — a glare, sorry.
Thin wire holders to take and pull the boot...
Unfortunately You are right. The entry I read long ago, your probably all already read, but pereodicheski browsing, painfully delicious photos You have) are sometimes compared with those that did not see alive, in order to distinguish a fake
The fact that make changes, that's for sure, but in our time, usually for the worse, see another of my entry, just about CTR www.drive2.ru/b/3001448/
Also don't know how to explain, he engaged in spare parts, and a split open, from batch to batch there are differences in many manufacturers even with equal points - the bar code, SKU, etc. may really make a difference in production.
Of course, the fakes of the question.
Hello. Thanks for the info. It is difficult to say why. Possibly in one case their own production, and the other was allied. Or the design amended.
Good time! Want to share an observation. 2 years ago bought for my Extral stand staba CTR and they, like You, was without the top o-rings set, white nut with a skirt.
Recently again bought the same bones and interestingly the top ring is, and the nuts are black. As bought not to itself, the package has not been opened, a picture of the phone did not work — a glare, sorry.
KAYABA21
The VTR is also a good
VTR is the steering tip, the quality of the products is not bad, was about 25 thousand, but the boot cracked before . Replaced the dust boot on the Korean avantech far, but plans to replace a pair soon, because the right is finally dead the steering 555.
Good afternoon. If you select only between CTR and GMB, I would choose the CTR, they have a hinge made better. But the grease you need to add in the one and in the other, it is there from the factory is almost there.
Yes:-)
I also want to note that Lemforder (through their representatives) and a couple say in unison that the amount of oil in the hinges — not an indicator of quality. Usually for long and successful careers missing 1/3 of a gram. For example, the person who is in ZF-Russia is responsible for the complaint, complained that most of the "defective" joints killed immediately after the purchase, when they tried to cram the grease:-)
Thanks for the complement. I periodically ask why it is difficult to move the finger first, especially on new items. Explain that this is normal.
would like to add a comment on"the smoothest of all the samples in the course of the ball stud". On some of the technical seminars I have heard from the representatives of the several brands that design and the quality control is not only assessed the force required for moving the finger relative to the body, but also the so-called "stress first shift". So, is it normal that when, in order to move the fixed finger is necessary to make greater effort than its subsequent movement.
Second comment to the phrase "On the front is a logo in the form inscribed in a triangle of the letter "L". What kind of firm cooperating, I don't know"
This product is not subcontractors, but most of Lemforder. Just historically, that the stamp with the owl can only bet on those 5 plants that was built by the founder of the brand, Dr. Jurgen, and the rest — almost 250. And all of them — own production, not subcontractors
Petrovich35
A little bit wrong. Always lubricate the threads of grafickou, then as usual gather and twist, and clay at the very end, just stuck on top like a cap. There are even special avtoplastik, but I sculpted and normal, baby. At the clay there are two good properties, it does not flow in the heat and under it does not develop corrosion.
will try, thanks for the idea)
There is no single "best" company. Different items are better obtained from different firms. For example, the stabilizer link, I like Sidem, ball joints and tie rod ends TRW, etc.
Had also bought the CTR, now switching to other firms in CTR has ceased to hold the quality.
Once I had to change the crab, the live link was German, at the end of the link something like remove hex, but had to throw it away, thread ruined, with a CTE of no such problems.
Actually, I have spare parts from CTE. And surfe, tips and traction and links for Nissan
Yes, there is, with flats under the flat spanner to Unscrew better than the hexagon from the end of a finger.
Write main your koment .
To take in my opinion, is better only with the holder under the key, why?
YES, because when it's all going 15-20 thousand or even more, it turns sour, so that the hexagon you normally will not hold, it is some to think, how to bring the grinder
The dimensions of the ball are different, the examples you see here www.drive2.ru/b/2978773/
So, what in the end to take?O_o
I stand staba don't have to live 15 000 — 20 000 just do =((
Good afternoon, thanks for the feedback. With Mitsubishi thing to have had, so I don't know who their supplier.
I took Ruville — rings sealing on the boot (large and small), finger made under open-end wrench (the probability of the use of grinders during disassembly is reduced), the case metal. I liked it.
Apparently, different versions released. And the bag of grease at GMB brand difference.)
Just out of the box, GMB stands for jerboa, front and rear. They have the dust rings are on the wide part and on the finger. On the finger of a steel rim with flats and turnkey tote the groove under the hexagon. The nuts in the kit. And Yes, the bag of grease :-)
Petrovich35
In the coming days will lay out the second part with the findings.
The second part was? In the record reference is not visible
Petrovich35
Thank you for rating. Today the rest of the day will continue with the conclusions.
Sidem.- one of the 2-Oh
Here, also read that often in the box Lemforder'and CTR are. Thank you very much for the info and very interesting and informative article! 👍
Thank you for rating. From the above, the ball I would take a TRW stabilizer link Lemforder or CTR, which is cheaper, because Korean models are often ordered Lemforder parts from CTR.
An interesting article. What ball for the Aveo will advise you of the following: TRW, Lemforder or Zekkert. And what the rack of the front stabilizer for the Aveo is better to take: Lemforder, CTR or Zekkert?
I did a review of 555 www.drive2.ru/b/467856492343591051/ Interested in how long they go.
Petrovich35
Unfortunately, for all the brands of the money is not enough.) Maybe I will for other machines. Thank you for rating!
By the way just the front set from the 555. If interested, sfotayu at the event and will indicate the mileage.
article what?
if mobile here: yandex.ru/images/search?t...овиль%20что%20это%20такое
valkar26757
I just after each Assembly/disassembly of threaded connections "prolative" brush or spam "Mobile"!
The article can be?
Hello. Add some lubricant is desirable. Why, what grease and how — at the end of this entry there are links to additional information. Cm. links 5, 6, 7.
Good afternoon, I bought CR-V 3 stabilizer CTR, tell me, please, whether it makes sense to fill them in yourself additionally lube, if so, what is better, for example: for Trusov internal (for tripodal lithium-based) is for external (on molybdenum) or something special?
Yes, a little...change, understand exactly, or not strumming, perhaps the original take, especially for folks sets of 2 pieces original nuts 1700-1800 appeared.
It is very small even for the unknown of China. On my Suzuki Sidem already 30 thousand to go, all right.
This is only the third place. On the second article on the same topic www.drive2.ru/b/2920141/ as leaders — another... www.drive2.ru/b/3001448/
Post about the stabilizer link scored almost 1600 likes, this is almost like a post about Boobs on the Drive... there's a chance to go to popular topics and feed out.
And about the firm OSSCA say what? Like the Opel factory put them and the like are long.
Thank you for your appreciation of my work. The Febest parts I personally am restrained and tolerant, one time they scolded a, now met and positive feedback, but from the range Febest bought the maximum elastic bands for the suspension, complaints about the quality was not. It's Chinese, but it is not the worst.
Good post. Not enough time spent by the author for the benefit of many car owners. Personally, I have read all the posts regarding this topic, in the same breath. Very informative.
And interesting to learn about such details Febest, as the price is not too high and kind of firm known.
Kruzka
Good article, where I bought through your auto-parts factory (the website), I said a can-do something to identify the fake detail from the quality when ordering. And I did so. I go green or another color I have now, there are no fake parts. In the screenshot it is visible, now I see where the real and where can be a fake.
What is the catalog?
Thank you for understanding. This is really useful information. But the lack of direct deliveries from the dealers also does not mean that the firm sells fake or substandard goods. Just the risk to the buyer above.
You misunderstood, green indicates that the company works directly with dealers or whatever it's called.
I.e. suppliers themselves indicate that sell fake or substandard goods? Hard to believe that they themselves will be substituted.
Good article, where I bought through your auto-parts factory (the website), I said a can-do something to identify the fake detail from the quality when ordering. And I did so. I go green or another color I have now, there are no fake parts. In the screenshot it is visible, now I see where the real and where can be a fake.
Well, I think. Taking into account that they have for the year just one "like", the result are not achieved.
Strongly advised to submit a complaint to youtube for stealing someone else's material.
And on the drive they are copied completely lost conscience, too, need to file a complaint.
www.drive2.ru/o/b/2923936/
Thank you for your attention. Also saw these thieves. When your brain is not, can only steal someone else's.
I found a video in which the parts shop gives your research for your.
And yet, this shop has a page on the drive:
www.drive2.ru/o/AUTORBY
Theoretically — Yes, maintainable by pripressovki bushes. In practice, I think it will be difficult to find suitable bushings. Not sure if they are sold separately.
Hello, Andrey. Original parts Chery of good quality at the level of Korean. But it is provided that the official original. In retail under the guise of Chery sold a lot of cheap imitations. Judging by the anthers "not very," You got, most likely, it is this detail. My choice on a ratio the price/quality is Sidem. On the racks of the stabilizer for Chery Tiggo, see www.drive2.ru/l/9437354/
Petrovich, welcome! What can you say about these stands: Chery T11-2906030. Bought to test price bribed).On my Ford fit the rack from Rav 4 in analogues saw this and bought one)Yet did not put.The rubber on the anthers are not very kind...and so well done.
Strut stabiliser SIDEM complete BULLSHIT. Packed and made beautifully, and passed 10K miles and started knocking through 15t exploded anthers. sucks
Good afternoon, help to understand, took the stand CTR CLKD 9 -10, one came in its original package, sealed package with the company logo, the second transparent package, but it is clear that he was peredavali, both all markings are applied, only in that which is with the company logo, no white stripes, I don't know they are on both racks should be? And how to check it works fine or not, the one with the logo gently rotating, in that rewired rotates with difficulty.
It's just alarming, the cement plant, the filter should filter become dirtier.))
I'm changing like IT should, 2 years working at the cement plant, the filter remained clean, not even dusty, no complaints on this company)
I also bought the filter Zekkert on trial, but had not set. On the form neatly.
filters Zekkert use, not expensive, high-quality in principle compared with the original, and they are more common
Sasic — good. The manufacturer, on the market since 1927 sasic.fr/ru/
Suspension: — so-so. It seems only packer on the market since 1977 www.mapco.com/ru/%D0%9A%D...%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F/
PS. This is purely my opinion.
Petrovich35
From all these racks I'd bought only two. Wait for continue.
where's the rest of it?
Now all the air quality has fallen. Perhaps Doohap someone delivers, I was not interested. If CTR heart is not in it, take Doohap, the quality is about the same level. But, in my experience, the resource at joints Doohap smaller than the CTR, see www.drive2.ru/b/486773589899477536/
And Doohap is not the supplier of the same? CTR that negative reviews recently a lot.
From this list I would take a CTR, they are the suppliers to the Assembly lines of KIA and Hyundai. Tie rods during normal operation there are long, usually from 100 thousand km and more.
Please tell me, a rack of the stabilizer and the steering tip, which firm is best Doohap, GMB, CTR? And how much they approximately km walk.
Good afternoon. Your observations are correct. I even wrote about this, see the link www.drive2.ru/b/456171157641495973 text under photo 15. I think Sidem make the items to order Moog. Production cooperation.
Hello. Tell me Sidem very similar to the Moog may Moog making plant Sidem you these racks are not compared?
about the company JETT something, has anyone heard? anywhere the old can not find! bought shedding of this company, to look good like...
I have never in these numbers and not focused, just people persistently and regularly talk about it.
Petrovich35
Yes, I know. Only when ordering via the Internet they do not see and do not indicate, so get what you bring.
Guys.
In 2013-14 Lemforder is a five-digit symbols to use seven figures.
Five is old stock.
All new articles — seven figures. While 01/02/03/04 not necessarily mean the country of production.
Good day. These washers increase the contact area with the bracket, reduce the load. Can be made non-removable, but sometimes are attached separately. It is necessary to install them as pictured:
Good day, I bought lemforder Corolla 150, in the kit are washers, threads for which they do not understand, in front of the nut are wrapped? someone tell me?
Here is a link to the continuation www.drive2.ru/b/2978773/
However, there I pointed out three brands, but it's not worse.
"Despite the fact that outwardly all imported rack look worse than others, next time I would buy only TWO of them. But more about that in the next part, to be continued!)"
And where is the next part, which specify the choice of only two brands?
I would go with two hinges assembled factory lubricated in one of them, to have more and the other would lay SHRB-4 :)) For comparison of service life.
Well, that was a question)))to alter or not...to remove the ring failed...without breaking boot)))))
Grease the rack with the fingers washed off with soap...and SHRB actually...
Would you add or SHRB SHRB replaced?
Here lubrication laid down an acceptable amount. If you pereskazyvat can be a little bit more to lay. Stocking to inflate the boot, it is not necessary.
Either the bulb is tight, or the grease is not kept on the ball...at the extremes, the ball is dry in some places...
The duster may not be necessary to lay, if you lubricate the hinge with a small margin. But about 1/4 of the volume of the boot can and fill, do not need much.
Fill 2/3обьема anther?
Decided to replace the...for twisted the bulb and all the grease left in the boot))))
Bath, with a small slide. I usually lay this much: www.drive2.ru/b/515020318494950687/
When wearing the boot, grease will get on the ball during operation of the hinge. Grease not glue, and the bulb is good, polished.
30 thousand km But they were removed wrongly, the source of the knocking, as it turned out, they were not. Before installing the racks I disassembled and lubricated while they were new. But without additional training, according to my own statistics, CTR just go an average of 30 thousand km.
Quality manufacturing CTR normal, but they have a minus — not sealed boot, because there is no top (small) o-ring (see photo 7). I have used/shot with an auto stabilizer CTR, we need to see what condition the joints. How to get to them, do a review.
To be, but on Asian cars in 90% of cases Lemforder pack the wrong items, e.g., CTR. No reason to overpay for the advertised brand there is, plus, and RTS SIDEM anthers leakproof than CTR.
The Stoics stabilizer myele hd...BMW E34 drove 70 thousand km and 3 winters and still live🤷🏻♂app...lamp left in the first winter...the mileage on the roads of Russia on Talnakh.
Maybe that was the quality to decline, as everywhere else now. I stand earlier years of manufacture significantly longer went.
Put Sidem in July 2018, it's April 2019, mileage after replacing 7.5 thousand, the left strut in the trash
It is very small. I have Sidem result is better, see www.drive2.ru/b/506445502187831983/
Sidem 45367 Toyota Auris — departed 2 thousand. Alas. Began to rattle. Bellow — fits really well, but in this case it does not play any role. Returned original a decade ago and the noise is almost gone. Hope ball and caps will be of better quality.
Hello. I imagine the details LYNX is not taken, the usual medium grade China, squinting at Japan. The online reviews confirm my opinion.
Good day, you know anything about strut stabiliser LYNXauto, I want a VW Jetta to buy
I have Sidem showed different results, anthers sealed, the mud came only under a torn boot. After 35 thousand km on two racks of the stabilizer tapped on only one hinge, which hit the dirt. See more www.drive2.ru/b/506445502187831983/
MOOG could production Sidem, now it is practiced, production and trading cooperatives, as they would say in Soviet times.)