Blog: the spark will kindle a flame? Not always!
This enhancement will be useful to almost on all models VAZ injection engines regardless of the type and composition of the ECM equipment and the ignition system in particular.
Immediately a warning — the results of the review and the issues.
! ! ! Intervention and changes in the electrical circuit of the vehicle requires at least basic skills in electrical engineering and realization of actions to be executed ! ! !
If You feel that the wiring and electrics of the car — a little bit of Your profile refer to a more qualified person or electrician explanatory.
It is in Your best interest. And save You from unexpected consequences.
Updates and additions — at the end of the article.
Detailed detailed analysis of changes in the ignition system after performing rework is described here:
Part two. Detailed results
In order.
Engine VAZ 21124. 1.6-liter, 16-valve. Individual ignition coil (or a dual module with high voltage wires). Everything is beautiful. At first glance, it seems all thought out, accordingly should work accurately and reliably. It turns out it is not so. It's Mercedes !
Individual ignition coil
About problems with the ignition for this engine written quite a lot about the choice of candles, replacement and selection of individual ignition coils ( hereinafter — ikz).
Here I came face to face with this problem.
The main symptoms — engine rotates unevenly on the twentieth (rpm dance in a range of approximately 720-840 rpm), sluggish with jerking acceleration, increased consumption.
In principle, the most clear – misfire, rare but there. The ECU in their emphasis does not see. In the past year are clearly beginning to fail one coil — ECU saw. Replaced it, a little vain. But still the engine, something was missing. What is a good spark! That's about it – in detail.
Version:
— replace the plugs (now NGK departed only 7 km. far) to something more expensive from the series "platinum iridium", etc. – costly option.
— to change the ikz, and they are a little over 7 years (family Bosevska cost, mileage 75 km) – a little expensive (the cost of one of ikz in the area of 540 UAH ($22), and four of them) and there is no certainty that the problem will be removed.
— MAF that is also not fun...
— look at the ECU for integrity keys, current-limiting resistors to it.d.
To act at random or according to assumptions — not my method not my approach.
Read ECU showed:
1. Jump momentum
2. Jump the injection timing slightly
3. Jump the ignition timing advance on the twentieth (9-15 degrees) — too much
4. Food, MAF, TPS – everything is stable and beautiful.
5. The weight of the ECU – all in the ideal (up-front completion and correct layout)
Verdict – unstable sparking.
We measured the parameters of ikz – resistance of the primary winding, inductance, reactance of the secondary winding (including the diode in high-voltage circuit), check for absence of short-circuited turns is the norm. Coils have minimal (± 2%) variation in the and nothing disturbing in the parameters. More about that later.
Assembled in haste "the stand" normal sparkle, a little weaker in the mind than on the classics with contactless ignition system, but still – clear across the speed range (2 — 45 Hz), with the accumulation time 2.0 MS. Coil live.
Replaced the rubber caps in the BB of the coil.
For completeness, I decided to see an oscilloscope on the engine diagrams on the coils, you pulled your C1-65A – reliable, proven workhorse to the machine and forward.
The ignition is on. The engine is running. In the Board network (battery) of 14.35 In that the twentieth hundred at 2000 rpm consistently. Wonderful! Look.
As usual start with the power supply at the coil (+12V ignition) and HORRIFIED! On the coils and of the harness connector ikz – ripple exactly 2.5 V. I'm not mistaken, remeasure in 2 modes (and oscilloscope for many years everyday and is not only a working tool — there can be no doubt ).
Sorry for the bad pictures — scan is slow, and the shutter speed in the camera is short. 
2V /division Scale surges to nearly 2.5 In
0.5 V/div with cutting off a DC component. The photo is not very good, but the presence of almost 2.5 on the scale seen!
2V/div without clipping a DC component. Another machine with the pulsation of the order of 3.4 V ! ! ! ) Complaint and the symptoms are the same
Crisp, beautiful sawtooth failures in the accumulation phase of ikz with a duration of about 2 MS and scope 2.5 V! And some toy cars and more, to 3.5 V ! ! !
Battery ripple is almost not visible (slightly small, about 50-80mV)
All arrived. The cause is localized. Then look no sense. That's where the dog is buried!
A calculation to Excel and get – decrease the maximum current (accumulation) at break of 18% which is equivalent to reducing the energy stored in the coil and output coil in the spark plug of 33.6% ! Impressive?
(the dependence of the accumulated energy from current — quadratic W=L*I2/2 for reference !)
From the sea of articles on MUK selection of candles, ikz.
I'm not talking about those with silicone with a high resistance wire from the external ignition module.
As usual, everything is banal and style of AVTOVAZ, wiring, contacts, connectors. Well, the conservative pofigistskoe "engineering" here touched...
To action!
Step one. Required.
narod.ru/info-sxm.html#loc2 rel=nofollow noopener target=_blank class=c-link>Diagram of the electrical connections ECM EURO-2 M7.9.7, January 7.2 LADA 2110 engine 21124. 21124-1411020-30, 21124-1411020-31,32
The General scheme of the ECM and the desired fragments.
Fig.1 a diagram of the ECM 21124 (January 7.2, Bosch 7.9.7)
Fig.2 Installing capacitors in the wiring ikz
As there is a high-power pulsed inductive load (ignition coil) and long chain dining (ikz harness, engine compartment harness to ECU) – to smooth out the gaps need installing capacitors, and as close as possible to the load. Which was immediately done.
Disappoint the skeptics — this approach is a classic technique in the circuit design of the power pulse devices. No magic, miracles and things UnReal. In short, to call this approach, so — "compensation of the internal resistance of the power source for pulsed inductive load"
2 capacitors (Photo 1, 2) — twisted insights, patpal wire, the findings are isolated with shrink and then the entire structure again to shrink completely, only wire sticking from the outside :-)
In harness ikz between 2-3 cylinders (cut the tape, (and so the corrugation slit) see the twisting — 5 blue wires. And it, (the twisting of the spin S1 (Fig 1, 2)) plug-in 2 capacitor 2200 µf*25V (105°C).
Alternative and more sophisticated variant — not to touch the well-Packed twist — to clean up in a circle for 5-lead 8mm (thick) blue coming from the ECM connector wire and solder the positive lead of the capacitor to it.
Minus launched a separate wire to the point of mass under the M6 bolt on the cylinder head (near the oil pressure sensor).
To use the weight of the high voltage coil windings for connection of capacitors are highly undesirable.
When installing the harness ikz, be very careful — forgotten and not bolted to the cylinder head ground terminal of the ignition coil (black wire) will lead to failure of the ECU .
Capacitors: 2200 µF 25V 2pcs Fit and more tension 35 / 50 / 63В, but not on a 16V.
Range of capacities of 3000 — 4700 UF. to exceed the upper limit also is not necessary!
Manufacturer: Jamicon (TX, TL, TZ, WG, TK, TM), Samwha (WB, WF, WL, RD), CapXon ( KF, LZ, KM, GL), etc. in order of my preference. 105 degrees, low impedance ( LowESR).
2 capacitor to 2200 UF will be more efficient and more durable than a single 4700 UF. I don't want to fetch theory
Photo 1. Blank
Don't confuse the polarity! Strip but the hull stands for "MINUS"
Error with correct polarity will lead to short circuit, swelling and boiling condenser, problems with the wiring.
Photo 2. Further — isolate insights and all the billet in the shrink
So everything looks in already fully assembled, the engine cover does not interfere.
Photo 3. Harness ikz and additional capacitors
Photo 4. The connection of the masses in the area of the pressure sensor on cylinder head
Result: the amplitude of the pulsations decreased to 0.8 In — and this 3 times.
The pulses on the switching terminals of the coils (output, scope, duration, oscillatory process) are almost identical, it is heartening that the presence of stable sparking. To add capacitors showed characteristic emissions, indicating no discharge in the spark
The car really went very much as it was before – back acceleration, disappeared dips, crisp and precise response on the gas pedal. Immediately decreased consumption by about 0.7 - 0.9 liters (7.8 instead of 8.5 and more in the city). On the twentieth of stable momentum.
Starts much faster (scrolling the starter at the exact time 2 times shorter).
And it's all the same plugs and coils!
For purity of experiment screwed up the "old" candle, which Troilus considerably. The picture has not changed. The engine is clearly working.
Step two. Extremely necessary. Or rather, mandatory
Looking at the wiring diagrams ECM 2110 (21124) (Fig. 1) saw that the coils are fed directly from the ignition switch. Despite the fact that the ECU has a direct power wire (about 2.5 — 4 mm sq) with battery, it is powered the fuel pump, injectors and everything else.
The feed circuit of the coil is made with wire of sufficient cross-section (about 2.5 mm. sq for sure), the ikz harness, harness engine compartment to the ECU and EVERYTHING! Next to the ignition switch harness from the ECU wire is already visually thinner. Naturally, over time, wear of the contact group of the lock of ignition, the increase in the contact resistance of the connectors (due to the oxidation and weakening of the spring-elastic properties), the result in all its glory on the move and on the screen of the oscilloscope. Vskidku circuit to coils is 4 of the connector, the contact group of the lock, are especially prone to wear.
d-cd.net/566dd72s-960.jpg width=960 height=669 itemprop=contentUrl>Fig. 3 Connect ikz the main relay the ECM
Twisting S5
Because decided: food ikz to take the main relay, the ECU, and it is powered directly by a separate wire (about 4-6 mm sq) with battery. Circuit the power and electromagnetic (or electronic) power relay here at the time. What has been done.
In fact long overdue! A separate relay I don't see sense to install. It simply duplicates the main relay, the ECU, and not very loaded.
From swage "S5" (Fig. 1, 3 ) bit off the blue wire And patpal it to pink black extending from the main relay to the ECU. Long enough.
Swage S5 is in the branching of the ECM harness to the plug side to your dash or IMMO to find it's not difficult, just trace the thick blue wire feeding the coils in a common harness in the area of branching.
Bite it from twisting, pulling (release) to the side of the motor shield.
Full sizeSwage S5. Usually here it is
Full sizeVisible thick blue wire feeding the coils, and it should bite
photo taken from BJ vud37 with his permission
Recommend replacing the fuse (item # 33 on the diagram) used in the circuit with a 7.5 A to 10A
The result of the final phase of pulsation on ikz decreased to 0.35, i.e. in 2 times.
The result of improvements in full
The result: ripple (dips) in the early – 2.5;
after adding filter capacitors — 0.8 V;
after reconnecting the power ikz the main relay ECU — 0.35 IN
The result is obvious. Stable Idle and dynamics flawlessly.
The question price — 2 capacitor shrink, electrical tape. And quite a bit of time and desire.
Go ahead. Injector. The picture is much better. Ripple less, but also there — in this circuit the currents smaller. And there was installed a month earlier informed the capacitor 1500мкФ*25V. As to the harness, In the heat, minus the bolt M6 at cylinder head. The purpose of the installation, interference suppression during operation of the injector in the vehicle's electrical system and additional equipment. The injection timing and other parameters of the engine have not changed, and should not was in fact.
On the same supply circuit of the injectors was connected to the controller cooling fan www.drive2.ru/l/7205138/
Quite a handy connection point. The power lead and the temperature sensor nearby.
Acutely aware that capacitors, even calculated at 105°C in the area of the cylinder head will not be easy. But looking Samwha datasheets and Jamicon is not very upset. At 105°C, the declared capacity of at least 3000-5000h (for some LowESR series). In principle, and not a little. Only time will tell.
The main thing – the problem, investigated, resolved.
Solutions outlined.
Detailed detailed analysis of changes in the ignition system after performing rework is described here:
Part two. Detailed results
Good luck on the roads!
Update 2017 June
Links with more detailed photos of the numerous requests and often ridiculous questions
Ikz harness and transfer the power: :
Good spark is the key to stable operation of the engine
Install capacitors in ignition system, the power ikz through the main relay
The capacitors in the power supply circuit of ignition coils
In search of the flawless sparkle!))
Update November 2017
The owners "Prior", "Kalin", and other machines produced after the "tenth" family very often ask the same question: how to determine the power to the coils (ikz or MZ) taken from the main relay, the ECU or even the old fashioned "ten" tradition from the ignition switch?
A few options:
1. Preferred. Find, view and slightly analyze the schema version of the ECM of Your car is subject to a power line of ignition coils.
2. The color of the wire coming out of the ECM harness in the engine compartment and the right to the 5 pin harness connector ikz.
blue — power coils is taken from the ignition lock (with high probability), and requires revision!
pink-black means power taken from the Main Relay, the ECU (Ignition Relay).
3. Connecting the bulb to the contact 5 of the harness connector and ECM turn ignition off:
— if the light goes out immediately the power of the coils is taken from the ignition switch, and requires revision
— if the light goes out with a delay of 10 to 30 ° C — so changes to the schema made by the manufacturer, the power taken from the Main Relay, the ECU (Ignition Relay) and it should please. Described in this article the problem is now fixed.
Update December 2017
When installing the harness ikz, be very careful: the forgotten and not bolted to the cylinder head ground terminal of the ignition coil (black wire) will lead to failure of the ECU.
It is not difficult to find!
Track per string, to bite off from an existing contact and throw on the GR
With conder clear. I'm curious as to 16V with the MOH need to find the wires to the main relay to reroute the power. Himself didn't look, maybe tomorrow will do. I will try more to take it off.
Well, I moved today, the nutrition of the MoH. First run was strange. The car immediately stroila or even Zadora, the disruption is terrible, speed is not scored. I turned off ignition and started again. All became normal. Five times then I run a hot motor, it's also okay. Then wound up in about three hours, order the motor cooled down, is also okay. That was for a glitch I did not understand. The car rides like better, like the hiss on some radio station was gone. Rode just a little, still not really understood, but it's not.
I just connected to the negative terminal of the battery... Then shorten and reconnect.
Hello Paul!
Short wires of sufficient cross-section for the screw in the area of the cylinder head. It is an adequate ground.
What does the terminal battery?
Hello Maxim, please tell me is there any difference in connecting ground to the engine or battery terminal, as well as the length of the lead wires? Just did everything according to your diagram, but the findings from the conder left long, the connection near the coil connector(I have PP ignition system), but the negative is thrown on the terminal TC of the wire was missing.
Just improvement is not found even on the contrary appeared omissions which did not previously exist.
soran. the entire blog looked and the beginning of the only hats looked.thought something about the ECU and started to look further...Thanks for your blog...I now know what to do now. And a lot of work for the summer. About all of these problems have long been known, but you painted all the details and correctly which is very important! Will wait for new records. By the way I read about disabling the radio and size. I turned off the radio itself, but the lights I do not touch. Implemented a diode DRLs in headlight unit driver+ light sensor+ avtomaticheskoe headlamp with late ignition. ie when on the ignition is flashing the DRL, after winding they are included. when it is dark the headlamps come on DRL go off. The buttons don't touch.
implemented using relay CJSC"Energomash" 719.3777-03 and 719.3777. not as brilliant as your posts, but might be interesting)
5. The weight of the ECU – all in the ideal (up-front completion and correct layout)
Hello. Could you be more specific? Very interesting.
And very interesting, somewhere I read that the ECU has separate outputs for minus different sensors. Which in turn twisted(somewhere) and displayed on a single output. What do you think?
Easily!
From the end face of the cylinder head to place and solder the wire departing 5 cm from the connector
and soldered to the blue wire between 4ым and 3rd generation you can?)))nothing is going to change? there's just a very good convenient location)
Hello.question were professional plus soldered to the twist between the 2 and 3 cylinder? cut that does not need?
Yes should do.
All the same, adjusted for the colors of the power wires MZ
Cm. my version of the diagram ECM
Complete revision in full and not go looking for problems.
Wrote about them in the comments
is there any point in this refinement only capacitors without reconnecting to the main relay?
Have priors from the coils is a black ground wire on the engine, I minus from the capacitor to the same supply or somewhere else?
oldmankcc
dissent that is minimal. normally it is expressed, 9 months conder normal flight, but campaign time to change them. che consumption rose to 8.7 in the city ))
Pryor no "destockage" jamb with food. Except on very early — the first editions (up to 2009).
Because the real effect is minimal
Well, certainly not because of conder. Especially on a cut of less than a year.
3 years or 50 tkm. No less!
dissent that is minimal. normally it is expressed, 9 months conder normal flight, but campaign time to change them. che consumption rose to 8.7 in the city ))
Generally done after the surgery:
— smooth momentum XX
— after switching the first transmission to the second baseman picks up immediately and felt more traction.
So far only noticed it.(Priora)
+100 you karma)
The stand tested the coil, including with increasing voltage.
I am a supporter of moderate wires with distributed resistance and inductance. Ie standard PVPV-40
www.redmotor.ru/vaz2107/229.html
You practiced? And what about the wires of zero resistance? As I understand it they are not always useful.
Not the most reliable method. Also has some serious limitations and requires a fairly reasonable approach.
Here are found the old that if the coil to 14.2, and 20 volts using the boost Converter, it is also very much improve spark? What do you say about this?
It will be good.
But there will be interference from the coils to the side of the ECU
Hello. a question, if only to throw the power to the coils and capacitors not to put, the sense of refinement is some sort?
Thanks for the feedback!
Also just noticed that cotcollector stopped ringing.
To locked need to try
— insights to bend strictly at a right angle,
— flatten insights to the body with enough force
— provide sufficient level of vibration for the destruction of the insulation.
In reality this is unlikely. .
Ie, can the capacitor be close if plus and minus are to touch the body of the same condenser, the body as a conductor?
And of course feedback after completion :
Is gone the ringing of the reservoir when you press the gas pedal
Thrust increased, and it is very noticeable
Well, start to flow until the tank is vegetal. Personal opinion : definitely useful Revision!
Thank you for the article! I do not know how to convey what a thrill you get when you find Quality, rozyasnennya information...
Hello. Please answer, and that would be permissible contacts of the capacitor plus and minus touched his body?
driver353
capacitors inserted directly to the power rails ? paralelno ? just plus parallel to the positive power supply rails ? and minus the weight of the car ?
Yes
capacitors inserted directly to the power rails ? paralelno ? just plus parallel to the positive power supply rails ? and minus the weight of the car ?
McSystem
This is a serial problem 10-th family.
It is to eliminate. Moreover, a fairly simple action.
The result will impress!
I understand the BOSCH 17.9.7 (Kalina 2011) not worth the bother ?
This is a serial problem 10-th family.
It is to eliminate. Moreover, a fairly simple action.
The result will impress!
Nowhere is it written "and on each reel" do not invent! :-)
Again!
To move food (ikz, dual coil, module ) on the GR ECU and add the capacitors on the power line. Clearly and unambiguously!
www.drive2.ru/b/2173392/?...ge=19#a506559026763399477
No variations :-)
You write capacitors for each coil. Plus change power with the key on the main relay.
And those who have the module. Only the power module and the key. Can chtl Yeshe somewhere thought that said
Wrote that more coils need. And we have none. It means only the module and everything?
Everything is exactly the same adjusted for the color of the power wire to the module. To move food and add kindercity
k05007
About this blog friend told me a few months ago. And as usual not chewed essence. And when he told me about the capacitor in the ignition circuit, I told him it's not real. It turns out everything was different here. In short, I wanted today to repeat the above, going with your revision. And then it hit me, I thought nafig these swings with the condenser, decided to do otherwise. Breaking off the positive lead from the connector of the ignition coil, the part that went to the lock Bo. I put on the relay coil. And that which is in the coil of one relay contact, and the second connected directly to the terminal of the battery. When it turns on. Bo. the relay switches current directly from the battery. I hope it is clear explained. In the beginning I wanted to apply my favorite field keys, then odd thought, whether a little and decided to put relyushku is the road with their brand. There were other small ones, enough for the eyes, but in the future would have a problem if suddenly you need to replace. And so, shot, stabbed another. And by the way in the car I got not just. After a recent starter replacement on modern, the engine began to run intermittently. When provera. key was not a sign of even clicking the retractor, but the current is why it was dropped. I was told it is a disease, it is necessary to stick a relay which works OK why the manufacturers stopped installing. Here.
The next stage, set next to the ignition coil additional field keys that signal (cathode), will take immediate location.
IMHO:
I think the first revision had an effect, as I have in the cabin is a lot of voltage SAG. I even gaps on the plugs increased from 0.7 to 1 mm.
Let's see how will reveal itself in the case.
If possible with the pictures of the "keys" in b.well. Thank you.
The transfer of power on the GR ECU solves the problem in exactly the same way but without the extra relays and wiring in the podkapotka + a nice bonus in the form of coasting when you turn off ignition.
But in General — all it is
About this blog friend told me a few months ago. And as usual not chewed essence. And when he told me about the capacitor in the ignition circuit, I told him it's not real. It turns out everything was different here. In short, I wanted today to repeat the above, going with your revision. And then it hit me, I thought nafig these swings with the condenser, decided to do otherwise. Breaking off the positive lead from the connector of the ignition coil, the part that went to the lock Bo. I put on the relay coil. And that which is in the coil of one relay contact, and the second connected directly to the terminal of the battery. When it turns on. Bo. the relay switches current directly from the battery. I hope it is clear explained. In the beginning I wanted to apply my favorite field keys, then odd thought, whether a little and decided to put relyushku is the road with their brand. There were other small ones, enough for the eyes, but in the future would have a problem if suddenly you need to replace. And so, shot, stabbed another. And by the way in the car I got not just. After a recent starter replacement on modern, the engine began to run intermittently. When provera. key was not a sign of even clicking the retractor, but the current is why it was dropped. I was told it is a disease, it is necessary to stick a relay which works OK why the manufacturers stopped installing. Here.
The next stage, set next to the ignition coil additional field keys that signal (cathode), will take immediate location.
IMHO:
I think the first revision had an effect, as I have in the cabin is a lot of voltage SAG. I even gaps on the plugs increased from 0.7 to 1 mm.
Let's see how will reveal itself in the case.
necroposting))
The problem of start using is installed the firmware with asynchronous injection, and during startup, if the shafts were in the "awkward position", then after a few turns, the car may not pick up (asynchron does not work on low) and then turn off the injectors so the manifold is not bahnul. After switching the ignition lock injector is reset and already start. However, sometimes the second time might not be so lucky with the "inconvenient" situation and then have a third time to turn
A check valve?thought
Sorry already bought this
Where is it located? In the tank?
ALEXEY38SPACES
I had similar problems exist.And it is this that the car 1 times can not be got — a little shake, and does not grasp
The point is that until the ignition switch on, you can even twist eternity — nothing happens
Should prikljuciti, then with poltica start
But about shaking when stalling and work are tired of it, I will try to put conder!
Check valve fuel pump died, the ignition at anything. Previously, after a normal start?
As practice for 3 years — this school is subject to elimination without a doubt, as the problem with the masses of the ECU
I had similar problems exist.And it is this that the car 1 times can not be got — a little shake, and does not grasp
The point is that until the ignition switch on, you can even twist eternity — nothing happens
Should prikljuciti, then with poltica start
But about shaking when stalling and work are tired of it, I will try to put conder!
Reasons for swelling not present before, in fact, superfluous.
And according to the statistics of swollen conder in 99% cases to the breakage go away.
In my 14 13года were failures to 1 volt, it was possible not to bother, but hooked a capacity of 4700 µf (via a 5A fuse to prevent the fuse is stuck into the terminals, which compressed the wire, well, shrink) issued a capacitor under the cover of the motor housing air filter there and the fuse, there's not so warm and you can see the capacitor if swelled — just to see you, and if it flash like that before it will burn and will not leave without the ignition on overtaking, for example.
Drawdown was 1 V when the tank is 0.5 V.
On the photo: 1V Affairs, 1 MS cases, no capacity
Soldered directly to the ignition module conder 3300мкф on Opel Corsa d, since there is +and - thick wires wound now pulls perfectly, regardless of load and consumption fell by around half a liter, but from the ECU to the coils are wire less than 0.5 of the cross section, though a small distance (25 cm) but the same could drawdown, I will try to duplicate thicker. Engine Z12XEP. Thank you very much for the tip on the problem, I thought the candle problem.
and if you try to disable only minus going to conder, without disconnecting plus, there will be some consequences or entire graph is required to disable those plus and minus?
and tell me. After the installation of conder, increased the injection time from 3.29 to 4.00. and correspondingly the fuel consumption from 0.78 to 1.14
zeri
Of course, I go now is not the distribution of a fuel injected car. The latter was jet -2 , with a wet coil from Bosch, distributor, vacuum operatical 4 injectors, lambda, in the catalyst. without the knock sensor. Now on the Audi b-2 , with a contactless system, wet cat. Bosch. When I used to ZAZ huge block ignition Ukrainian. Which at low speed gave the spark arc electric. discharge of such welding. Already average and above this arc just in short time . I understand there is a controllable oscillator was. The effect of this block ( coil under high. voltage) has been excellent.There was observed wear of the electrodes of candles, about 6-7 thousand and electrodes to significantly lose weight. Similar was observed when installing the plugs on A V-2. When turning ( to install MW. ignition ) distributor -spark on TS. the electrode was not short. The sound resembled a soft-touch welding electrode ( slippage) at the beginning of welding. But the pulse duration was less than immense
used on ZAZ. When you replace spark Opel vazovskoy 08, primitivnogo on your test bench power supply, without a smoothing filter for 12 volt, I noticed this "sawtooth" a spark longer . And if you stop trumble. in the right place so all kind of welding.It is clear that just over loaded the circuit. But maybe the switch it makes sense to use the similarity of the smoothed voltage from 100 Hz? To improve combustion in different modes.
You have at the moment, the accumulation time controls the control UNIT or forms a switch?
zeri
Understand, just raise the voltage on the primary. A bit frustrating me. This second Audi-2 is one and the same model (84-86) is a little different inside. The front seats, different ( factory, equipment is the same) . But the ignition system for the spark is different. The first overshoot when the sparks literally the flames were, like, the electrode in the beginning of the welding, "the shuffling". And in this it does not say earlier and later, ( all regularly) cross miserably short. Consumption they in passport data included. But then another spark passes. On the first 1985 the plugs ( the electrodes are burned out at 8 thousand miles. after 12 thousand them nothing helped - trash. This ( 1986) drove 6,500 while in Belarus. Burnout of the electrodes are not noticed. Just an insulator and probably metalizirebuli have a bad run, passes. Put new plugs. Turns out the spark power is weak.And cold and for hot with a half butting start for this time of year ( about 0-2 Gard). The mixture normal. probably objemy Clem transaction will prepay . There may be losses.Yes, in principle, check the voltage drop. But subjectively, all the same in different lightning. One wide combustion flame is blue white. Another loud shot short blue.
For the classic switch with the Hall sensor to increase the voltage of the infinite sense. Due to the nature of the switch. Once the warm-up. And an increased probability of failure
Take a look here www.drive2.ru/l/288230376152850702/
Even by external signs, the spark may be different, depending on the specific pair — coil+switch.
Without an oscilloscope and intelligent approach nothing will change
McSystem
I do not quite understand the issue.
The parameters that define the energy of the spark is:
current gap
— switching time (the closing of the power switch dU/dt)
— limit the peak voltages on the power key in the phase of origin of the spark (320-400V).
Hence the conclusion — we need to rebuild the switch for a specific coil.
You can slightly raise the coil supply voltage 3-5V, if it is not possible to change the accumulation time.
But it should be done carefully, with oscillographic. control, so as not to "catch" the saturation of the coil core.
Understand, just raise the voltage on the primary. A bit frustrating me. This second Audi-2 is one and the same model (84-86) is a little different inside. The front seats, different ( factory, equipment is the same) . But the ignition system for the spark is different. The first overshoot when the sparks literally the flames were, like, the electrode in the beginning of the welding, "the shuffling". And in this it does not say earlier and later, ( all regularly) cross miserably short. Consumption they in passport data included. But then another spark passes. On the first 1985 the plugs ( the electrodes are burned out at 8 thousand miles. after 12 thousand them nothing helped - trash. This ( 1986) drove 6,500 while in Belarus. Burnout of the electrodes are not noticed. Just an insulator and probably metalizirebuli have a bad run, passes. Put new plugs. Turns out the spark power is weak.And cold and for hot with a half butting start for this time of year ( about 0-2 Gard). The mixture normal. probably objemy Clem transaction will prepay . There may be losses.Yes, in principle, check the voltage drop. But subjectively, all the same in different lightning. One wide combustion flame is blue white. Another loud shot short blue.
About the engine nothing intelligible can not say, I am electronics. Not my theme at all.
It is difficult, of course. As a result of practical experiments will probably get you there quicker. I'm on the duration of the spark.Probably a relatively simple way of doing this no? And secondly, how would the observation. Wanted to share with an intelligent man. I have the feeling that mixture in diesel engine ( eg. The 1.9 AAZ) burns more evenly and longer, keeping the pressure buildup in the cylinder after TDC degrees approx 10-15 than that of the gasoline-air. And this as well ( the shoulder of the crankshaft is slightly increased relative to the pressure mounted), the diesel efficiency is higher. Interesting scheme found floating gasoline combustion chamber. Something of type of the firing cycle was trying to do Ibadullaev standard crank mech-me.
I do not quite understand the issue.
The parameters that define the energy of the spark is:
current gap
— switching time (the closing of the power switch dU/dt)
— limit the peak voltages on the power key in the phase of origin of the spark (320-400V).
Hence the conclusion — we need to rebuild the switch for a specific coil.
You can slightly raise the coil supply voltage 3-5V, if it is not possible to change the accumulation time.
But it should be done carefully, with oscillographic. control, so as not to "catch" the saturation of the coil core.
Of course, I go now is not the distribution of a fuel injected car. The latter was jet -2 , with a wet coil from Bosch, distributor, vacuum operatical 4 injectors, lambda, in the catalyst. without the knock sensor. Now on the Audi b-2 , with a contactless system, wet cat. Bosch. When I used to ZAZ huge block ignition Ukrainian. Which at low speed gave the spark arc electric. discharge of such welding. Already average and above this arc just in short time . I understand there is a controllable oscillator was. The effect of this block ( coil under high. voltage) has been excellent.There was observed wear of the electrodes of candles, about 6-7 thousand and electrodes to significantly lose weight. Similar was observed when installing the plugs on A V-2. When turning ( to install MW. ignition ) distributor -spark on TS. the electrode was not short. The sound resembled a soft-touch welding electrode ( slippage) at the beginning of welding. But the pulse duration was less than immense
used on ZAZ. When you replace spark Opel vazovskoy 08, primitivnogo on your test bench power supply, without a smoothing filter for 12 volt, I noticed this "sawtooth" a spark longer . And if you stop trumble. in the right place so all kind of welding.It is clear that just over loaded the circuit. But maybe the switch it makes sense to use the similarity of the smoothed voltage from 100 Hz? To improve combustion in different modes.
Thank you. Itelma just worth it. And Kalina, 2008/in with the engine 1.4, there is a powered lock? The father of this machine
Good day!
Relevant. Especially in conjunction with the ECU from ITELMA, and a little less relevant with the ECU BOSCH.
Harness ikz — the same
Food already taken from the G ECU
You can safely perform rework
Good day! Tell me, Lada Granta, the engine 21127. Whether the actual installation of this device? Diagram of wiring harness of ikz is about the same?
Cool article, a note for common development, thank you!and you pulse on the power wire was measured right?
imsusanin
it is necessary to try, tomorrow at the capacitor will go to the store, the solder from oxidation underhood than what is covered? (varnish etc)
What car?
it is necessary to try, tomorrow at the capacitor will go to the store, the solder from oxidation underhood than what is covered? (varnish etc)
In the runoff, Yes, castle. After revision with GRS ECU.
The modes of operation of the keys is not affected, almost. Except that the current peak increases from 6.9 A to design and staff for ikz 8 And
www.drive2.ru/b/480194662074679487/
Key no threat present at all!
What's the current transitional process? That's right, not what! Because the keys are not involved in this process
Contact load G is present, and that, within the allowable.
I wonder how long live the ignition keys to the ECU with what strength of current will start to flow in the first second when the capacitors are charged from 0
Hello I have Audi 100 C4 2.6 volume can I install the same device as you only I have a few questions I have 3 coils for two cylinders power the same on each separately I need for everyone to put on 2 of the capacitor
on Snipe is the same — the transfer of power and conder on the power line module (middle pin. 3 pin connector) wire Color just another.
Thank you. I also wanted to do the same for Chevrolet Niva 2013.in. There is a module. Unless of course it will improve engine performance.To wire the power module connect the plus with were professional, and minus much better?
Thanks for the reply. Inspected the wiring in the engine compartment, where you will connect the power plug coils. There rose the black wire, and it suited the blue harness from the coils. It turns out everything is fine? Be done only by the capacitors. I found only these: Jamicon TK parameters, as You pointed out, appropriate?
Hello, very interesting article. I have a question. Can I do all this but step by step. For example, first put conder to harness coils.
Later and others to understand. The car Lada Kalina 16кл. 98лс. 2010.in. Mileage 180000. The engine has not yet been climbed.
McSystem
The standard scheme of the ECM on the link ? ?
Accidentally found, and supposedly it is specially put on suites. now ceased, buy even hard conder these
Well, the capacity is very small)) I just found a harness with a chip and I think your revision using the chip that connect ) to Refine)
Yes, since Prior to the wiring harness there is a connector for a suppression capacitor. (only 2.2 µf)
In most cars it is present
McSystem
Good day!
Yes, the food is already all OK. Only conder to defiltering
diagnoz-avto.ru/arfsoft/0...dvig21126_e4_ME17.9.7.htm
McSystem
Good day!
Yes, the food is already all OK. Only conder to defiltering
Look what came across. that's the factory setting. Roughly speaking the same almost like your revision
But impulse interference the pressure is conder. Enough capacity 1000 UF, 2200 already with the stock.
Then, that was absolutely correct — the input and output metallocene 2.2 µf*63В.
In reality, the meaning of such a filter is specially present. Spectrum interference even with the 2.2 UF and it is quite low frequency.
McSystem
Good day!
Yes, the food is already all OK. Only conder to defiltering
c1 4500мкф
what do you think about this filter ? Add L1 or thick wire on a ferrite (1-1.5 mm) 15 turns or metal, but 0.5 mm in three cores.
Hello, wanted to know I have obtained only conder to put right? according to the diagram of the machine of my Kalin 1 Suite v16 1.4
Thought so. Because with Beauchamp, the result from filtering the power practical. NOT felt
Performed the installation on the grant, 8th class default Posting comes from Chapter relay ( middle wire on the plug and the ignition module black and pink ). Put condensatori 1pc. 2200 MF 35v and 2pcs. 25v 650 us. Come probably. The car started to drive without a hint of podergivani at lower levels in the city. There was a small pinky, but they were gone. XX
the same is in the range of 50 rpm, most likely it's a feature.
Just Thank you from the heart !
I wanted to clarify is it possible to power capacitors of different voltage, such as 25 and 35 volts 650 and 2200 microfarad, respectively
Dmitry124rus
Good day! Tell me, when installing capacitors in the circuit MZ revs became smoother, the engine runs crisper and a little quieter, but there was another problem during extended downtime, or when you stand on the damped car with the size, the machine starts immediately, you have to do the blipping. Earlier such problem was not. A car VAZ 21099, injector, brains 5.1.1 January 2002.
I remember, I wrote that AM5.1 strongly do not like gradual decline of voltage on the control line caused by the discharge of capacitors. Treated the same way — execution of work in full.
Anyway, I modified my servos with this UNIT no issues arose.
Good day! Tell me, when installing capacitors in the circuit MZ revs became smoother, the engine runs crisper and a little quieter, but there was another problem during extended downtime, or when you stand on the damped car with the size, the machine starts immediately, you have to do the blipping. Earlier such problem was not. A car VAZ 21099, injector, brains 5.1.1 January 2002.
Voltage of 12.8 g in, on Akuma 13.2 V, if +Akuma — engine то13.6, and is wound on the engine, when engine is off on the gr and Akuma 12.3 V. Campaign is necessary to check all the contacts of pros and cons, and generator power is clearly not enough.
I should add that threw additional weight with Akuma on the body before the gr was 11.8.
If you have a variable (pulse) component of the multimeter is lying on the full.
In this case, only an oscilloscope will show the real picture.
And I was thinking that the need multimeter digital and analog just do not have time to track the voltage drop at the moment of sparking and because the readings are constantly changing.
Thank you for the advice!
Must be a stable voltage on the battery.
You can measure between the +battery and +of the power ikz
To start with this problem! In order then not to expand the amount and кол0во problems
Measured with a DMM, measured at the coil 1C., ignition off 1.2 V, on.12.4,at the got 13.4 with often uneven decline of up to 0.5 volts, here I don't understand what was happening!
Starts on a dime runs one can say exactly, but there is no swagger, twitch.Mass breed?
I do not understand where I go wrong?!Everything began after I replaced the scythe coils, new even visually collected from the wire less section!Soldered conder as recommended, the effect appeared, it was two months ago.Last day off went ahead and rewired the power ikz on the main relay, the fan's weight moved, did extra mass on the body ECU, by the way I did this all because the machine became depressed, after the alteration for the better did not.I decided to check the spark homemade "suppressor" of candles and syringe penetrates not more than 2 cm, sparkle red, although replacement of the spit, the spark was white .So the question arises what is this new braid is a great, can this be?
In General, the contact on the terminals of the battery that the body was specifically oxidized all smoothed out and treated it with contact 60-61 and covered with a graphite lubricant, +added mass with the genes on the body, the volts on the contacts ceased to be lost, the lens became light, even at night, the starter became hot.All simple nuts if modifications are removed, only used galvanized Peschici with the notch and the castellated washer, even on the upper mount of the absorber.
The mass of the sensors is still not lit, the machine twitches and dips within normal parameters, sensors intact.
Came to the conclusion that scanmatic, arrester, and the smoke(although very helpful at work) don't give me all the information where the dog is buried, or I tuplyu, the machine then flies crawling.Probably too late to master the diagnosis after 40,but I had a snack with this fault IIiii!
Faced the fact that we need an oscilloscope, I thought I'd take the DiSco Pro 3.3.
Hi! Added capacitors in a braid coils. Failures at lower levels are gone.
The car does not know
Before that I thought the IAC and TPS Sensors
Thank you very much!
All the great shows! Only
classic, full-featured oscilloscope and not "diagnostic".
And with awareness, what to look for and how :-).
Pictures to understand the situation — in excess, with cars with different versions of the ECM.
And reviews from owners of "novya" is enough :-)
Well, this is only if the waveform will be seen. I almost no such problems were experienced on new machines.
Present for the entire line of ECU from Italy, including on M73, 74
Impulse noise on power they sucks "digest". Analysis circuitry gives this phenomenon a clear justification and explanation.
But the Boches — it's much better
I wonder what other, more recent ECU, such troubles do not exist. The same M74, everything is perfect.
Thank you. In the evening at home in a relaxed atmosphere will reread everything again. And then at work now). Thanks for the response.
All the same, adjusted on the color of the power wire to the MZ (middle wire in the connector)
To transfer the power to GR and defiltering centerchicago in place.
Good day. But how to implement on the motor VAZ 21114 8 Ko. * Itelma m 73. For earlier thanks a lot.
Thanks for the reply
Will be able to give advice to a beginner?) So to were some minor problems, there may be some links or videos. In any case, thank you
Good day
Yes, the meaning of revision is!
Same thing, but adjusted to the color of the power wire to the MOH (conclusion "D")
And adjusted for the specifics of a particular schema version ECM
Good day! Bought VAZ 2110 as a first car. Year of build 2001. The idle is unstable. Is there any sense in the above revision for my machine. Motor 1.5 8кл.
Article for improvement is very interesting, thank you!
no food on site, only the capacitor to the circuit module. weird. it turns out that there is no spark until you discharge the capacitor as soon as the dead — turns on relay
Reworked several of such machines. No problem identified.
The power was transferred?
Hi! Made improvement by installing capacitor in the circuit of the ignition module, there was a problem, if you turn the motor off and again turn on the ignition and try to start it, it shakes the pump, if the issue is time, then everything is OK. What could it be?
Hello! Thanks for the detailed description! Produced this improvement, the result is! Please tell me where can I find information about the same finalizing power injectors.
Please tell me that with the wiring of the masses ECM wiring that I can not understand, it turns all the colored wires connect together and secure them to the body and the swage cut off?
Tell me, please. ECU January 5.1, is initially plastic and the Association of the mass with the body ECU no. On the Board of the ECU housing with the fee is connected through a resistor toli toli using smd capacitors. Do I need to throw a separate mass wire to the body, or it will be too much?