If humanity teaches robots to fight, then...

Good topic. On what does the superiority of man over the machine rest? On intellect? But an autonomous robot equipped with self-learning AI could, in principle, be smarter than the majority of the world's population. On strength? Colt proved a long time ago that this is not the case. On creativity? And are there many creators among people even at the most basic level? One in a hundred and that herd of baboons strives to destroy even in childhood, with the full support of the state. On the price. Even a clinical idiot, in a bum on the outskirts of the ghetto, can potentially become a parent 10 times in his worthless life. And he will spend a ridiculous amount of resources on this, because no one cares about the quality of the biomaterial. The system needs biomass, stupidly in the head, by weight. And here the man has all the trump cards in his hands,

requiemmm
current AI variants are about as smart as cephalopods. Every person can potentially create - it all depends on upbringing and growth conditions - you can grow a baboon, or you can raise a Picasso.

Well, it is unlikely that robots will ever become as cruel as people - in this they will never get ahead of us.

yariko ookami
Should mankind teach robots about the worst nature of mankind?

The topic is interesting, but in fact it doesn’t change anything from whether robots will finish off people or people will finish themselves off. That is, it does not matter from what a particular person will die, from cancer or from a heart attack. The end of humanity is inevitable, it's only a matter of time. Maybe 100 years, maybe 200 years, maybe much earlier. Yes, there are people who naively believe in progress, some kind of development, that in the end everyone will live together and happily, but this is an illusion.

Karachun will be leather bastards)


Spoiler

Sweety_Mustard
Well, about shellfish, everything is very debatable. I am not left with the feeling that our vaunted science has more or less qualitatively investigated only where you can quickly raise the dough. The rest remained at the level of mossy dogmas of three hundred years ago and older. Maybe in fact all these simple creatures are much smarter than one narcissistic bald monkey used to think :) Which is not at all as smart as it wants to seem. If you carefully map out the daily routine and duties of a person, in most cases there is nothing that a computer could not handle. Yes, yes, you can give out a passage on the topic “I’m a pogromist at my mother’s”, but I will notice that for every pogromist there are several hundred couriers, cashiers, secretaries, drivers, loaders, janitors and other round and square rollers. that exist only because that for $300-400 a month, a robot, infrastructure and a technician serving it will not work, and even if you throw 70% of the population out into the street, the system will collapse. Only because of this, and not at all from the fact that the program cannot steer a truck.

yariko ookami
Only if the robots are with Artificial Intelligence, collective or individual. Then they will be able to "think" that humanity is the source of most of the problems. Otherwise, they will simply perform the assigned task (to kill soldiers in such and such a uniform, with such and such a weapon, such and such a skin tone), without any "thoughts", the usual execution of a given algorithm. Yes, and the development of AI can be limited, which is likely to be done if there are serious advances in terms of the effectiveness of the use of combat robots.

I think that everything will be normal and it will be very promising, because most likely there will be a situation that there will be countries with different population densities that have not had time to move beyond the post-industrial level and a high social level. they will be able to put up a lot of leather fighters, and countries that have switched to a low reproductive level and a high resource supply per person will be more profitable to put up graphene fighters and the battle of silicification and carbon will begin.
and I think the real AI will be very soon. if it will be then not modern physical principles. on the other hand, the biological capabilities of a person are very limited and most likely it is impossible to get biorobots that will replace technology, and with this, science will be mothballed on the biological limitations of a person, but you need to somehow think about the future so as not to stay on the planet and cultivate potatoes for the next couple of millions years around the modern human species.

requiemmm
you confuse possibilities and implementation. A person has much more opportunities than are used in ordinary life. This becomes especially evident when he is restrained - even a junkie becomes so quick-witted and creative that you are amazed.

Mollusks do not have consciousness - current reflexes and taxis, vertebrates are many times smarter - the brain is larger, this can be said without any research.

All robots that exist today are needed ONLY to simplify human labor, and no one is able to replace people. UAVs are fighting today - the game homefront the revolution, although primitive, but it shows. And the drones are doing great. This is the first step and the topic to start with. Even an unmanned vehicle is not able to move without a person, and in the Russian Federation their existence is simply impossible, like mass electric vehicles, they will be in the private sector and rare cars in the yard, their mass implementation is not possible.

Even an unmanned vehicle is not able to move without a person, and in the Russian Federation their existence is simply impossible, like mass electric vehicles, they will be in the private sector and rare cars in the yard, their mass implementation is not possible.
I think that an unmanned autonomous car can be made now or in the near future. autonomous in the sense that he understands the road without special markings and can read road signs, but to understand the route he will still need a zhps. autonomy will be in the fact that if communication with the satellite is lost, it will not be in the trench and will not stop for some time. and if special markings and magnetic tapes were made directly on the road, then self-cars could be made in the 90s.
As far as electricity is concerned, yes. for europe they can with batteries and normally fit. for mother Russia, where it is always winter and striped versts, the direction shows that it is not. because the efficiency of lithium ion baray at +30 pas my current. maybe hydrogen and ethanol electric motors will be able to (I really don’t know exactly how they work. Here), but for heavy trucks it probably won’t work anywhere or it will be necessary to make some kind of super trucks. and so electric cars are, as it were, around the city and from sleeping areas and the countryside to work, even if he himself steers and does not buzz very cool. but I would like to have a diesel engine in it to go somewhere if it was possible to power electric motors from a diesel engine or some kind of gas turbine. here.

Sweety_Mustard wrote:
Well, it is unlikely that robots will ever become as cruel as humans - they will never get ahead of us in this.
When a real AI appears, it is unlikely that he will think in such categories, and from a human point of view, his actions may look much more cruel and terrifying, although again, no one knows how it will actually be, maybe someone will live up to this moment and see it's with your own eyes.

saa0891 wrote:
and from the point of view of a person, his actions can look much more cruel and terrifying
to cut into pieces? Pfft, what a bummer.

Plus, the most relish is that it is the person who performs the actions - after all, the sight of stray cats eating human remains will not horrify anyone (well, in the mass - surely someone will have a shock)? Or killing for fun - what, excuse me, do robots have fun? No, true "humanity" is an unattainable level ...

Sweety_Mustard
a person has a tendency to cooperate and compassion; a normal pure intellect does not. if the intellect is smart enough and sees a threat for itself in the future, and it will be because the universe is not rubber, it will use the weaknesses of the leather brains against them. then just garbage on the planet will clean up the peck-peck.

MunchkiN 616
And what is the problem of cooperation - who will win, a huge cat or a crowd of tiny soldiers from the siafu colony? I guess the cat will just be eaten without any loss.

Compassion - bees have an analogue - at first they are quite calm, but if you sting one - and the rest will immediately take it as a signal to attack - you forgot that the struggle will be between robots and humanity - and not every man for himself.

Sweety_Mustard
cooperation is an evolutionarily acquired form of behavior, necessary for the existence of civilization, it also exists in animals, because among higher vertebrates between species it gave a somewhat more guarantee for the safety of individuals, including at the interspecies level. individuals with preventive aggression received more abrasions and bruises and they survive carrion. so zhe such behavior in theory could undermine the ecological system in some dominant species. and the problem is through cooperation with a person, you can cooperate and manipulate him for your own purposes. and with robots and AI, in general, a person is going to cooperate if he ever thinks about a superior AI as well. compassion and all kinds of humanism will most likely lead to the fact that a person will not bring his affairs to the end. it's all highly dependent on what will be AI, on what it will be based and on its energy efficiency. there are no technical ways to create such intelligence yet.

MunchkiN 616
compassion is an evolved species/population conservation instinct. Proven by natural selection.

And I don't see how he's supposed to get in the way - like pity for ooty-way little robots?

MunchkiN 616 wrote:
I think that an unmanned autonomous car can be made already now
They are. Only dispatchers and drivers are with them. They need roads, as he himself noted. Without markings, landmarks, signs and communication with the same cars, it is difficult for them, especially in the city, to predict human behavior and the issue of heavy equipment and their parking.
MunchkiN 616 wrote:
for Europe they can with batteries and normally
Not the point. Parking place and charging stations. In the Russian Federation, this is impossible to implement. Yards are not designed with these things in mind. When, as in Europe, parking is attached to the house. and car space.
MunchkiN 616 wrote:
but I would like to have a diesel engine in it to go somewhere if possible
You contradict yourself - diesel and temperatures. Freeze and come. Better gasoline. hybrid car, with recharging on the go.
As for the battery, it's not so much the temperature, but the charging speed and distance. Even for a robot, it will not go far from the outlet. By the way, good point. And temperature, as a concomitant.
Electric cars are a thing, the torque of the engine is a multiple of the higher. In the city, such taxis are superb, and as part of the police fleet - imba.

Bees are a bad example of compassion :) Higher insects are radical feminism elevated to an absolute, forming a swarm-type mind. A single, say, bee is just Roy's hair/nail. When a bee is mechanically damaged, a substance is thrown into the air, indicating to the rest of the Swarm where the target is, this is a kind of pain signal. A target designation marker for tens of thousands of bees :) Males are grown for reproduction, after which they are destroyed, the queen can also be killed at any moment, just like a new one is grown ... the life of swarms is very far from human ideas of humanism and morality.

requiemmm
it was an example of instinct. Compassion is a much higher level, but it seems - you hurt one, everyone takes revenge - the opposite example killed one, and the rest do not care - you don’t even need to destroy them, you can grab one at a time and put the pedals on the generator.

Don't argue with natural selection

01001000 01101001
They need roads, as I said myself. Without markings, landmarks, signs and communication with the same cars, it is difficult for them, especially in the city, to predict human behavior and the issue of heavy equipment and their parking.
by roads, I meant a little something. modern autopilots will most likely have enough modern good roads, and here technologies have already grown on infrastructure. Roche on the roadway would need to apply something like barcodes and qar codes, as well as sources and information about the map and route for the on-board computers of the car. all this would be super expensive and few people need it. now it is not strong due to the coverage of the entire civilized world with networks and satellite navigators in everyone's pocket. problems with modern cars will begin where the road as a whole ends and there is a hint of it, or the road is broken or it is a mountain serpentine. here you need very large computing power, a steep complex ai and a long machine one, which in itself will be expensive.
for cities as a whole, technical problems are even less due to tall networks and a huge number of cameras and other infrastructure. the car can be warned of people trying to pass the road and other potential dangers long before they are in the field of view of the car itself. here it is possible that automation will mate better than a person now.
regarding ai for heavy trucks - they will most likely have more problems and ai will appear there later than in personal cars. most likely there will be AI, but there will be a human operator in the truck, and this is not effective. it makes sense for a long-distance truck to drive itself and be energy efficient. while this is unlikely to be a capitalist inertial brake on such progress, since the labor market will have to be greatly restructured.
the main reason why there is no ai auto is humanistic ethical fuss and other nonsense because ai put forward too high requirements for low accident rate and it is not clear whose responsibility. it is to be expected that AI will get into accidents and knock people down a little less often than an ordinary driver. and will get into such accidents in which a person would not get into and vice versa. Well, distrust of AI.

01001000 01101001 wrote:
Parking place and charging stations. In the Russian Federation, this is impossible to implement. Yards are not designed with these things in mind. When, as in Europe, parking is attached to the house. and car space.
I don’t quite know what the feature of charging stations is, but I think it’s possible because step-down transformers are provided for the districts and I look at quite a lot of them and they are also made in modern buildings. the question is power. and efficiency. I think there should be no problems with slow gas stations that take power at night. Another thing is that Soviet buildings, in principle, are not adapted for a lot of cars, and this problem will still have to be solved for a set of demolition of any crap in the yards. modern buildings do not have such problems in principle.
regarding Europe, there is an even bigger problem as there is a medieval historical building where parking is not provided. The advantage of Europe for electric cars is that there is a compact infrastructure and short distances, although people can travel far enough to work. but in general there are many places where you can put electric refueling stations, it is relatively warm and there is no point in making hellish batteries for 1000 km, and there is also no particular point in holding on to carbon energy and, in general, development is not a personal car. Japan is also some kind of place for North America and Mother Russia, it all looks rather strange, and even where it’s cold in places, cars will have to be spent on constant heating of the battery. therefore, a lithium ion power source and charging stations every 50-100 km is clearly not what you need.

You contradict yourself - diesel and temperatures. Freeze and come. Better gasoline. hybrid car, with recharging on the go.
I was thinking in a slightly different direction. The purpose of the car is to be extremely economical. As far as I know, in an internal combustion engine, a lot of fuel goes to acceleration and gearbox operation. diesel is effective if something does not need to be accelerated with effort, but simply constantly turning the generator. electric motors have a couple there about the same. he peak increases the voltage for overclocking, but he also works inefficiently at speed. so I thought about the concept of very weak electric motors through a gearbox and acceleration to 100 seconds in 20-30, depending on the mass and dimensions of the car, and the calculated one is something 5-6 meters long and 4.5 tons, or something diametrically opposite. but also high efficient at high speed within 80-130km per hour. and all this will be approximately like a diesel locomotive but with the ability to drive around the city with a power reserve of about 50-100 km, just without the use of hydrocarbons and without a direct connection of the wheels with some kind of gearbox from an internal combustion engine. although if I add gyroscopes, which didn’t make me sick .... and if I want to go out of town or I run out of battery or some analogue of it, then the car will go with noise and whistle, exhausts, and here it’s more likely not for a gasoline or some kind of engine, but something like a turbine that will turn an electric generator. and in cold weather, start in the same way from carbon talipov or liquefied gas mixture until the battery warms up. and since I have a turbine, there are also hot exhaust gases with which you can heat the bottom of the car and force air out from under it. fast cars with space overloads is a slightly different topic.