Once again Wiz or Sorka (Neverwinter Nights)
Here are Kenny's arguments. I'm not talking about DND. I don't know him well, but about NVN and Geme in particular.So let's start from the beginning:
- At the visa, we swing the intuition from this, we get a lot of skill points and we can pump up crafting, etc. Inza is also added to the skills lore, apraiz, spellkaft (quite important skills). We pump charisma at the magpie, but what's the use of it?
- Wiz gets a fit to write scrolls
- In the conditions of Gem, where the subject magic of a visa, the advantage is that if he has rare components, he can write a scroll (true, stoneskin, st.stoneskin, mass hast, etc.) and store it on rainy day. Sorke from this some kind of good because even if we take fit tones, we will not be able to take a spell with rare components because limited number of spells
- Mage pomoimu gets a new circle earlier (but I'm not sure). In my NVN at 15lvle, the magician had 8 circles of forty 7.
- The magician has many different spells, so he can choose what to take to battle with a certain creature. If she has a tolerance for electricity, then the magician takes fire spells, etc. The magpie has a constant set and has no choice.
- Mage can change spells depending on the needs of the party.
- Also crafting veschas (sticks, bottles ...) on rarekite spells and distributing them to a party
- Receiving a new circle of choice of 2 spells
- Vescha with inta I rubbed much more than with charisma the magician because of the high inta can almost catch up with forty Spellam (at lvl 15+)
Cons of the magician in relation to Sorka:
- Fewer number of spells and receiving current 1 sang when receiving a new circle (very perceptible)
- The magician must choose spells in advance, i.e. in critical situations, the sorki has a choice of which is better dispelling or ice storm or st. spell or something. And the magician casts current what is left.
I think for now there are enough arguments in favor of the magician.
Kenn is your turn now. I played a little for forty, so I don't know everything .....
I look forward to Kenny's comments and response :)
PS A loner magpie is stronger than a loner magician (and easier to play with a magpie). But in a party, a magician is more useless than a magpie. It is also easier to catch a magician by surprise. But if he prepares in advance for the battle, taking into account the minus of the enemy, then he will turn out to be stronger.
P.P.S. If it were my will, I would change the whole system. The magpie would have left powerful offensive spells. And the magician would give spells as they say of high magic, i.e. zakly read themselves, summons, massive attack spells but which do not beat their own. But, in turn, the magpie could cast 3 spells in 2 moves ... Well, you can write for a long time anyway, nothing will change ... :))
Let's talk more globally ...
I'm wondering how Kenny will answer the following: The
wizard, by virtue of his abilities, can adapt to absolutely any opponent, knowing his strengths and weaknesses. Therefore, the wizard can defeat any enemy and complete any task, you just need to give him time.
Sork is limited in his abilities, he is flawed by nature. Yes, he casts a lot of spells, but he is easily predictable and not universal. And he is forbidden by the rules to exceed this limit.
Therefore, I see no reason why the sorceress should be taken as a pure main class. What can be said against this?
Kenny, can you and I walk through the woods together? You are so brave and charming ... You will protect us, we know!
Chando you are deluded.
Ҡâ€The wizard, by virtue of his abilities, can adapt to absolutely any opponent, knowing his strengths and weaknesses. Therefore, the wizard can defeat any enemy and complete any task, you just need to give him time. â€â€ â€
Sorka does not need to adapt to anyone. Sorka also wins as well as the wizard (unless it's a monk).
Ҡâ€Sork is limited in his abilities, he is flawed by nature. Yes, he casts a lot of spells, but he is easily predictable and not universal. And he is forbidden by the rules to exceed this limit.
Therefore, I see no reason why the sorceress should be taken as a pure main class. What can I say against it? â€â€ â€
Sork is absolutely unlimited. Well, what is predictable, it does not change anything. Before the fight I can tell the enemy all the spells I took, it doesn't change anything, I'm talking about predictability. Sork is also versatile, only smaller than a wizard, but a magpie is more professional than a wizard.
Yes, spit on this intuition, but we will have fewer skills, well, and that we only need to take important things, but for this we don't need a lot of int.
What is the use of charisma? What else is there, it is enough to take 1lv palycha and there will be spas that the wizard never dreamed of.
I'd rather have big rescues than a bunch of skills that have nowhere to go.
Errors are too lazy to check).
What for the magician in the obkast spas? well, there are special cases when they are needed, but will the magician allow this to happen? so about Rescued drive inappropriately, also at 20 levelnom shard, Level 1 multiclass quite noticeably, especially if Sorcerer will lag behind the magician 2 leveled by magic circles ...
Yet the magician can afford much, so about the duel between the magician and the magpie need not be said, the magpie will lose ...
I don't agree about the skills, the magpie only has enough for concentration, lore and the art of witchcraft ... and the magician, + to this, can pump healing (in a party this is irreplaceable, each healing skill increases the effect of treatment, DC to remove disease and poison) , crafting (it is always more pleasant to run around with a beautiful weapon or mantle), disorder (together with hast, it makes it possible to run through the enemy crowd without fear) ... and this is not the limit, you can also download other skills, especially with each raise 2 ints, skills increase ...
As for things, the helmet and rings of inta are very common things, as well as the cloak of a nymph ... the rest is exotic, so I read somewhere and laughed when I read that charisma has belts, mantles, amlulets and other rubbish ... show me all this on Geme ... So with things the magpies are losing again ...
PS and in general, stop arguing, let everyone play those who he likes =)
Thank you Julia, thank you Julia))))
You see, the most important dream of any man (2 women !!!) :))))))
And you Inteleeeeeeekt! Skill points! (^^) the
phrase "The wizard can * adjust * to any enemy ..." sorry for the vulgarity, but Sork will be active in this regard ... he doesn't need to "adjust" accordingly.
In Dueli Sork on Wizard there are more chances to win against Sork.
Predictability,! HA! on each circle there are 3, maximum 5 spells that are actively used, the rest have not been used in NWN.
here's an example for you:
5 circle. spells Dismissal and Spell Mantle and Ball Lightening. HOW will a wizard preparing for a fight with a magpie distribute the spells? HOW MUCH to take Dismissal? and how much mantu? no matter how much he takes. a magpie will either have 1 more Sammon than a dismisal, or 1 more Spell Breach than a mantle wizard. or there won't be enough BL to kill a magpie.
Sork, can throw 7 hands (knocking down) during the battle, and dilute them with dispels from the same 6th circle as needed. And the wizard will either not have enough hands at the right time, or the dispel will not be prepared. In short, the Wizard itself creates "bottlenecks"
There is no sense in arguing who is cooler in theory, at least because magpies are different as well as wizards. We must look at it in practice. One can only assert, for example: "the chara-sork, which Kenny controls, is better (worse) in 1x1 fights in a cage of 20x20 steps than% has a name like%." I would like more arenas however.
* looks at the sky in hope ... *
I don't want to prove to anyone that everyone needs to play magpies, play wizards, monks, wars, dancers, etc. It will be more fun for me. Sorkov I hate, they think of themselves as if the smartest and endure such)))))
PS All wizards who believe that the sork will lose to them in a duel, and who do not mind losing a little experience ... get in line at the barn! There will be "sparring"))))) I will learn how to "adjust", and you will be resurrected by some Cleric. (I will not conjure Mordenkine) ^^
PPS Sork paladin = %%% shche, NEVER and BOTH SORK will not serve God and sow order !!! This is just an oversight. If I see a magpie-paladin, he is not my friend, let his rescuers help him!
Wai. Kenya, and why do I agree with you in half? ;)
1) Play
with whatever comes into your head, and stop creating a little stupid topics "who is cooler" 2) Each class has its own advantages and disadvantages (you also forgot to mention that the wizard has more feats). And for every cunning zhy there is a corkscrew.
3) The wizard is a more party player than the magpie. And the dual of the magpie with the palych is generally nonsense in its idea.
I read everything here and realized that you didn’t mention anything new (except that the visa has more feats).
And in terms of the battle of visas and magpie on lvl 8-14 and magpie there are more shas. But then they get thinner. And by 17-20 lvlu visas will win.
Nefiga visas will not win, the only hope is a greater spellcraft, if you get into the anti-casting mod, there will not be enough dispensers.
Have a look at biotopes and vault, there are interesting builds there.
I don’t want to talk about the power of the 20s and 30s ... The honest Persian may be stronger than the cartoon, but (IMHO) I play for the sake of the process, and the process is what lies between the 1st and 20th levels. And it was necessary to make it interesting to play on the 2nd and 3rd and 4th. And on the 30th ... Unless only with Mephisto .. :)
Once again on the topic:
Your question says that you have aspirations that cannot be formed into a specific class. So you are looking for answers here. And the answers are simple, ask yourself what you like, climb the forums, and you will find the option that you like. I found. But I was looking for 2 weeks. 2 weeks is not a big price. IMHO.
Play for whoever you like, personally I am more than forty, true forty are only chaotic, and Kenny said a lot and correctly =)
I agree with MorZ. Play whoever you like then and find out who is cooler. Although, what to find out, and so everything is clear: the universal magician, give time and he will be the character you can not do without. And sork-well ... by his nature he is more sharpened for a single passage (that is, without a party). It seems like someone has already spoken about this. Although, if they met in battle (subject to the same levels and preparation), forty chances would not have been. But I may be wrong :)
Well, where did you get the idea that the magpie is a loner, and the party wizard?
Playing a magpie, they run up to me more than once and ask who to cast invisibility, to whom to hyde, to whom, etc.
The wizard, if he plays in a party, can sacrifice a little ripe and take, for example, a massive hast or the same massive minde.
today with Fox (magpie) we ran with fools, he has his own tactics, which I liked .. I bought a scroll, now I redid the spells on the slots, I felt sorry for the fool even =) And the magpie cannot change anything, the only hope is either level up, or leveled down to change the spells ...
what am I getting at, suppose a new location appears, there will be mobs, with immunity, for example, to the cold (ice storm) and electricity (electroballs) .. well, then what will the magpie do, it will be difficult .. ...
Rather, the moon will fall to the ground, and the earth in the sun, than a new location will appear on the GEM. Moreover, even though Kenny is a bastard, it is clear even to him that visas do not rule in comparison with a magpie, and with an increase in levl, the advantage increases.
Kenny, we seem to have a different understanding of HBN. Let's agree right away that we are not talking about 40th levels now, there is generally creepy nonsense with all classes. I am writing with a picture of Gem in my head ...
Now you say that there are some spells and there will be enough of them. But imagine what will happen if they are not enough. Clearing spells for rescues? I can drive my rescues high, high. Direct Damage ala Isaaki? Duc from one Isaac you will kill someone, and the second time they may not fire :). Summons? You yourself understand that the enemy will not be detained. Preliminary obcast for yourself? We break through any obcast.
What is all this for? And to the fact that I can run and see the stats of this or that magpie, then see what he is fighting and I already know what to expect from him. After that, I will have him whenever I want and how I want, because all his techniques are known to me in advance and he will only have to pray for cubes, and even cubes, with the right approach, will not save him. And he cannot take many different spells. His problem is the problem of magicians in general, because you can escape from magic.
The wizard can always rebuild in this situation. An extensive set of spells will allow him to pick up a key to any enemy and emerge victorious, because you cannot be ready for anything, and making yourself impenetrable for a dozen spells is easy.
How can you refute all this?
If you take a one-time wizard against a magpie, the outcome will be decided depending on the skill of the players. But sork as a class is more flawed. I have not yet found the last statement of refutation.
To Chando.
Again you are for yours. How is the sork flawed? Well, what.
Well, what is this argument that you will see what stats the magpie has and what spells it uses. Well, look what? Before the fight, I can say ALL the spells that I took, and the fact that you will know does not decide anything. I know perfectly well what spells I need and I don't need extra ones. You will not have a magpie as you want. Well, it won't work out simply. The only one who can have a magpie and a wizard is a monk (here I have 40 lvl.)
And in general I am inclined to talk about normal NVN, and not about pruning, where someone wanted and cut (fixed), and someone simply forbade something. It is necessary to fix some things (ripe), but not to castrate the eggs themselves.
To Feng Pal is very well suited to the sorceress from the point of view of Munchkinism.
To Travel don't you really think that the magpie doesn't need a rescue?
Chando, play with the Wizard and you will understand ...
In a duel, you and I both know HOW a magician or a magpie will behave. You won't even notice the difference when viewed from the outside. There will be the same hands, Isaacs, fingers of death, SHSH, Ice Storm, Ball Lightening ... All this will be seasoned with invisibility, anti-invisibility, dispels and spelmantles. In rare cases, summon will help.
Playing forty, I take almost all the spells I need. The wizard will do the same. I found only one problem, this is circle 6: Hand, Large Disp, GreaterBreach, Trusing, Isaac Large, it turns out 5, but you need 3. The rest of the circles of magic (including 9) are no problem.
You need to be less self-confident about "having a magpie as I want."