Are we despised?

If I'm not confusing the game, then in Mass Effect the answer was.

Veenine wrote:
Here we can be spotted with a technique of our level from a very long distance.
The plane flew away, so they still haven't found xD "Our level" ... yes ...

Veenine
Regarding reason, I would like to note that in this situation, rationality is an exclusively utilitarian concept, in its private meaning it is applicable exclusively to the human species, and even then with some doubts. In a general sense, it is extremely difficult to assess the rationality of other types that claim to this, albeit theoretically permissible.
What can be taken as the criteria of reasonableness in this case? A theoretical civilization can be very technologically advanced, perfectly adapted to life and even prosper, but at the same time have a completely peculiar logic of behavior, which may not only differ significantly from the earthly, but even directly contradict what we call common sense. And it will seem to us, evaluating new acquaintances in the comparative degree "here we are, here they are", as something absurd, wild, illogical, this may call into question our ideas about rationality in general, in a global sense.
Who knows, maybe in a thousand, one hundred or only ten years the logic of the behavior of the earthly man himself will change. The old obsolete rudimentary model will be discarded and replaced by a new one that has undergone a reassessment and is more consistent with the realities of our time. It will be exciting anyway.

And in short, no offense about the rationality of some of the comrades on PG - it does not strike the eye.

Do you need it?

Spoiler

Negih
The plane flew away, so they still haven't found xD "Our level" ... yes ...
And what does this have to do with it? Any level gives limited opportunities. The only question is how limited.

Wing42
In a general sense, it is extremely difficult to assess the rationality of other pretending species, albeit theoretically permissible.
We simply won't find non-technogenic civilizations until we land on their planet (which is very unlikely), and any technically advanced creatures are definitely intelligent.

A theoretical civilization can be very technological, perfectly adapted to life and even flourish, but at the same time it has a completely peculiar logic of behavior, which may not only differ significantly from the earthly one, but even directly contradict what we call common sense.

Common sense is not always an abstraction. If you act contrary to the objective properties of the world, you will not be able to create a technosphere, but you will not even survive. “In philosophy, in religion, in ethics, in politics, two times two can be five, but if you build a cannon or an airplane, two times two must be four,” Orwell said. By the way, the contact, if it comes to it, will be carried out in the language of Linkos, which is based on mathematics, because it is universal.

Veenine
You evaluate civilization by human standards, from the point of view of the same earthly mathematics. Perhaps this is dictated by the desire of a person to meet in space not just anyone, but an organism similar to itself, not only similar in physical structure, but also possessing the same principles of rational thinking as a human. I cannot say that this is bad, only if such expectations do not deny the possibility of the existence of the species I described in the previous message.

stalker7162534
There is a theory and a rather interesting essence in a nutshell, we ourselves are aliens, the earth is not our home.
Just with the passage of time and wars, they completely lost their knowledge and degraded and rolled back into development almost to a primitive state.
Well ... and the meaning of a more advanced civilization to communicate with savages)
Who can not understand anything but accept only their own kind.
The endless large space and the impossibility to overcome long distances, and what we know about this is practically NOTHING, and how can one then say that it is impossible)

Shy - and indeed, everyone knows that everything consists of the simplest particles, in turn, they consist of subatomic ones. A galaxy can be quite a simple particle only, let's say at another level))

It's good that cacti don't make of us yet (Kin-dza-dza)
Flea flea, listen, do you think there is life on another dog? etc)

In fact, all the potsons in the galaxy can be about the same age,
but within this framework, for a difference of 1000-500 Lyam years, in fact, so that we want to find all sorts of asari, shpurians there, a lot of things can happen. they can become homeless, start bowing to consoles, and so on.
therefore it is not worth waiting for news from potsons from far away. perhaps from neighboring galaxies it is no longer really worth it because the transmission power must be good.
secondly, the aforementioned common sense - why actually send someone powerful anal inviting signals.
But in fact, the topic is quite interesting, in short, the signals with which we monitor airplanes, satellites, etc., determining the distance to them, are actually capable of leaving for a neighboring galaxy. but they make little sense. it's like some star made a boom.
you can also refer to, for example, the history of our current civilization. For space civilization, communication with machines or miners, watchmen and bombers is of great importance. that is, it is worth expecting some kind of information leak from such civilizations.
and here the question arises how profitable for us now and in some future is the extraction of metals or hydrocarbons in the solar system in terms of energy consumption for utility. because to bring fossilized cocoa from some kind of pluton is a bunch of dollars. and the mood in our civilization is to fill its belly tightly, once in the weather the land and resources will be enough for another 5 generations.
neither the search for extraterrestrial civilizations, nor the development of some kind of transport technologies, is not spending enough resources to achieve the efficiency of industries.
This conclusion seems to be that we are unlikely to reveal extraterrestrial Pochans in our lifetime.

Wing42
You evaluate civilization by human standards, from the point of view of the same earthly mathematics.
Mathematics is one. The formal language for describing the mathematical properties of the world can be different, but they themselves do not change from this. Twice two is in any case equal to four, and the ratio of the circumference to its diameter (in Euclidean geometry, which the Universe has at least on the observable scales) is equal to pi, regardless of the peculiarities of alien thinking. It's another matter if they haven't thought about it yet, sitting around bonfires in caves. But there is no talk of contact with such without visiting them, as I said above. In short, there is no need to complicate everything by considering the most difficult cases at once. It's like in the search for life, in principle, they talk about "carbon chauvinism", they say, life can be very diverse, not necessarily protein. But, excuse me, it is wiser to look for something that is certainly possible and has more or less well-known properties, otherwise, I don't know,

Veenine
Sounds fair, I agree with you. Is it not a fact that we will find there exactly what we want to find.

zhekazloy
"washed away a more advanced civilization from communicating with savages)
who can not understand anything but accept only their own kind."
So I say - they despise.

Wing42
The logic of any creature is the same, as it is determined by the surrounding world. And he is the same everywhere. Everyone needs to eat, love, and provide a comfortable living environment.

Veenine
Sitting by their fire, sentient beings are interested in how others live. So since no one writes to us, it means they despise us.

Wing42
Is it not a fact that we will find exactly what we want to find there.
In fact, we want to find any extraterrestrial life, at least in the form of bacteria, otherwise we wouldn’t pick the same Mars and wouldn’t dream of drilling the ice of Europa and Enceladus.

stalker7162534
So since no one writes to us, it means they despise us.
Have Tahitians ever written to you? No? They probably despise.

Advanced alien civilizations have existed in the past:
Astronomers Adam Frank and Woodroof Sullivan of the Universities of Rochester and Washington DC published an article in Astrobiolog magazine in May. They studied the question: "How often in the history of the Universe has evolution led to the emergence of beings with advanced technologies?"

Frank, in an editorial for the New York Times, published on June 10, concludes: "We do not know if advanced alien civilizations currently exist, but we have sufficient evidence that they existed in the history of space."

Astronomers came to this conclusion by reworking the famous Drake equation, adding fresh data. Astronomer Frank Drake compiled this equation in 1961 to calculate the probability of contact with extraterrestrial alien life.

Drake studied radio astronomy at Harvard and worked at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. He included in the equation the number of planets in each solar system suitable for the origin of intelligent life, and planets where there are conditions for life.

The development of telescopes has increased our knowledge of exoplanets (planets outside the solar system). In April, the Kepler spacecraft discovered 1,284 planets outside our solar system.

“Three of the seven quantities in Drake's equation are now known. We know how many stars are born each year. We know that almost 100% of stars have planets. And we know that 20-25% of these planets have conditions suitable for life. As a result, for the first time, we can say something definite about extraterrestrial civilizations, ”writes Adam Frank in the article.

To study the possibility of the existence of alien civilizations, Frank and Sullivan included time factors in the formula.

“In the end, we were left with only three unknowns, which we combined into one biotechnical probability: the possibility of the birth of life, the emergence of intelligent life and technical potential,” writes Frank. "The likelihood that we are not the first technologically advanced civilization is extremely high."

In 2013, mathematicians at the University of Edinburgh claimed that aliens could send probes to Earth.

In the introduction to the study, published in the International Journal of Astrobiology, Arwen Nicholson and Duncan Forgana write: "We have concluded that a fleet of self-replicating probes is capable of rapidly exploring the galaxy and confirming the Fermi paradox."

The Fermi paradox suggests a high probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations, despite the absence of their signs. According to Nicholson and Forgana, the likelihood of the existence of alien civilizations in the past is very high.

They were inspired by the Voyager 1 spacecraft, which in 40,000 years will reach the star AC + 79 3888. They assume that 40,000 years ago some extraterrestrial civilization sent a probe to our planet, and it could arrive at Earth at any time.

Drake's equation N = R â‹… fp â‹… ne â‹… fl â‹… fi â‹… fc â‹… L
N = the number of civilizations in the Milky Way that emit detectable radio-magnetic radiation
R * = the level of formation of stars that are suitable for the development of intelligent life
fp = the proportion of stars, possessing planets
ne = the number of planets in the solar system with conditions suitable for life
fl = the proportion of planets suitable for the origin of life
fi = the proportion of inhabited planets suitable for the emergence of intelligent life
fc = the proportion of civilizations that have created technologies that can be used to send signals into space
L = the lifetime of such a civilization

http://www.epochtimes.ru/razvitye-inoplanetnye-tsivilizatsii-sushhestvovali-v-proshlom-99025247/

Why haven't we met aliens yet?
In the 19th century, the main mystery of cosmology was why the sky is so dark at night. If the universe is infinitely vast and contains countless stars, then every corner of the night sky should be bright, being illuminated by the light of distant stars.

Subsequently, this problem, called the Olbers paradox, was explained by the theory of cosmological radiation. The light of very distant stars is shifted towards the red side of the spectrum, and eventually becomes invisible.

In the 21st century, cosmology faces a different problem. There are billions of galaxies in the observable part of the Universe. Since the observable part of the Universe is billions of years old, extraterrestrial life forms have had enough time to reach the necessary technological level for long-distance space travel. But with the exception of individual supporters of conspiracy theories, there are currently no reliable signs of the existence of extraterrestrial life.

This mystery, dubbed the Fermi Paradox, has given rise to countless hypotheses, ranging from paradoxical (Earth is the only planet in the Universe with conditions suitable for life) to paranoid (aliens exist, but hide from people and watch them like animals in zoo).

One of the most popular explanations is the Great Filter Theory. According to this theory, the higher the technological level of a civilization, the higher the probability of its self-destruction.

It's no wonder why the Great Filter theory, pioneered by economist Robin Hanson in the 90s, has become so popular in cosmology. After the invention of the atomic bomb, the possibility of destroying humanity was no longer a science fiction story. During the Cuban missile crisis, the likelihood of a global nuclear war seemed a reality.

The Cold War is over, but new dangers are looming on the horizon. The Great Filter may not end humanity with an explosion: climate change has begun to melt millennial ice shelves in Antarctica.

Cosmologists are not the only ones concerned with the Great Filter theory. SpaceX founder Elon Musk created his company with the goal of developing technologies that would allow humans to colonize other planets in the solar system and eventually go beyond it.

http://www.epochtimes.ru/pochemu-my-do-sih-por-ne-vstretilis-s-inoplanetyanami-98986692/

Veenine wrote:
Actually, we want to find any extraterrestrial life, at least in the form of bacteria, otherwise we would not pick the same Mars and would not dream of drilling the ice of Europa and Enceladus.
Some of the smart ones before me noticed that we are not looking for another mind in the Universe, but are looking for a reflection of ourselves. That is, we need to look in the mirror. See if the Alpha Centauri residents believe in Christ? Whether they behave like us, or better than us. So that we can realize our place, ourselves, in this world.
That is, we are looking for a clue (on the exam) whether we are behaving well. For we have the desire to behave well in order to gain approval from the creator / parent.
For the ancient dogma that for good behavior we will receive life (with nishtyaks) after earthly death for us is, until now, a priority question - what is the meaning of life?

Arger wrote:
"We do not know if advanced alien civilizations currently exist, but we have enough evidence that they existed in the history of space."
Lies. There is no data confirming this point of view.
There is an assumption that if there is a certain number of stars similar to the Sun, then a certain number of such stars may have planets, and that on a certain number of such planets there will be conditions similar to those on Earth, and that life will arise on a certain number of such planets of planets, then from this the number of planets on some, life will reach a state of mind - then the enti aliens by their actions will allow us to discover them.
Shit on every item.
We have an indisputable fact, despite all our attempts to find a civic like Earth, we haven't found a dick.
Despite the fact that Academician Shklovsky, reflecting on this topic (do you think you are an uneducated worm smarter than Academician Shklovsky?) Wrote 50 (fifty) years ago (and since then our technologies have increased our capabilities in radio telescopes hundreds of times !!! !!!!!!!!!!) that we would be able to detect another mind at such distances, at which, according to "Drake's theory", we would have to find those like us.
But there is no one there.
It is a fact.
And everyone who wants to believe that materialism obliges to the fact that on a certain number of planets at a certain number of stars there should be little green men - go in orderly rows in a well-known direction !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Arger wrote:
According to this theory, the higher the technological level of a civilization, the higher the probability of its self-destruction.
Garbage refuted by the common sense of any rational creature - if you have reached the level of development at which your weapon (capabilities) have reached the ability to destroy everyone, then you (even having the singular, not to mention the fact that your opponents are the same) will not destroy everyone, including yourself.
So this vyser (I can't find another term). about the fact that a highly developed mind is cutting itself out - has no basis under it, except for the fear of the author of this vyser that nuclear bombs will be thrown that will kill this author.

Arger wrote:
Light from very distant stars is red-shifted and eventually becomes invisible.
Are you not mistaken, dear?

Arger wrote:
SpaceX founder Elon Musk created his company with the goal of developing technologies that would allow humans to colonize other planets in the solar system and eventually transcend it.
[REDACTED] dearest you (with a small letter exclusively) are lying. Elon was just going to deliver a man to Mars and return him alive to Earth, with all the laurels of the winner.

Tarakashechek and boogers, you do not notice until they begin to annoy you.
There is a cool movie with Jodie Foster, the contact is called, so there is a good phrase.
"If we are alone in the universe, then so much space is wasted."

stalker7162534 are
you drunk again?

stalker7162534
Where to deliver? Which Mars? This is all Western propaganda.

The Americans flew to the moon, but they flew so much that there are doubts. Why fly like that? It was necessary to fly so that there were no doubts.

stalker7162534
That is, we need to look in the mirror.
Science has no such goal - to find out whether we are good or not. Her findings may be food for thought on this topic, but this is a side effect.

what is a sense of life?
This is a question that torments only sofa philosophers. It is obvious to the rest that there is no definite meaning in life, everyone finds it for himself.

We have an indisputable fact, despite all our attempts to find a civic like Earth, we haven't found a dick.
We searched for a very short time, very few places and not a fact that with sufficient thoroughness.

and you uneducated worm think you are smarter than academician Shklovsky?
In some ways, we all have an advantage over the respected academician - we have more recent data.

and since then our technologies have increased our capabilities in radio telescopes hundreds of times !!!!!!!!!!!!!
First, the most sensitive radio telescope - Arecibo - was built back in the 60s. Only now a larger telescope of this type is being built in China; it will be 2.5-10 times more sensitive. Secondly, you need to scan the entire sky. The aforementioned telescopes, for example, cannot do this, since they are stationary and both are in the northern hemisphere, the southern sky is inaccessible to them. Thirdly, you need to listen to the whole sky at billions of different frequencies. That is, we have a fundamental opportunity to catch an extraterrestrial signal, and for a long time, but if we knew which particular star to listen to and at what frequency, and at the same time could direct a sufficiently sensitive radio telescope to this star. In fact, it may turn out that something is being sent to us, for example, from Alpha Centauri, and the only telescopes that could detect this are in the other hemisphere ...

In addition, it has already been said above that civilization may not yet use radio, then, most likely, its level is such that it does not manifest itself in space. But there is still another option - civilization ALREADY does not use radio. Therefore, using radio telescopes is not the only way to find extraterrestrial intelligence. They are looking for laser signals, looking for astro-engineering structures - for example, Dyson spheres (opaque shells around stars that look like infrared sources from the outside) or smaller-scale structures that can be found in the same way as planets - by observing their passage across the disk of a star. But such studies also have an extremely narrow scope, so it is not surprising that nothing intelligible has yet been found.

By the way, addition to this:

But in fact, at interstellar distances, you can only detect a directed powerful signal from a radio telescope. Only a few of them were sent from Earth, and some of them will reach their goal only after many thousands of years.
I did not take into account the signals that were sent not as messages, but for the radar of objects in the solar system. There were many of them, but still they only cover about 0.2% of the sky. I learned about this from a small review of the current state of the problem of the search for extraterrestrial intelligence: http://za-neptunie.livejournal.com/3751.html

But dick there - no one is there.
It is a fact.
Lack of evidence (especially when everything possible has not been done to obtain it) is not proof of absence.

Shit refuted by the common sense of any sentient being
Common sense helped people avoid nuclear war, but it did not help to avoid a situation where it was very likely. I am sure that none of the existing nuclear powers will deliberately start a knowingly suicidal war, but the following options are not excluded:

1) The decision on a nuclear strike will be made by the commander-in-chief in a state of passion, and the subordinates will be too executive ...
2) The attacker will decide that he can strike in such a way that there is no response, and will be mistaken.
3) The decision to strike will be made based on the false triggering of the attack detection system.
4) Nuclear weapons will fall into the hands of fanatics who are not at all friendly with common sense.

But the self-destruction of civilization is not reduced to a banal suicidal war. The more developed a civilization is, the more different ways it has to self-destruct. For example, in the course of some large-scale scientific experiment or a man-made disaster. On the other hand, a developed civilization also has great opportunities to preserve itself. Only those who, like us, live on the same planet are fragile enough, and those who are widely dispersed throughout the galaxy will be resistant to any separate cataclysm.

Elon was just going to deliver a man to Mars and return him alive to Earth, with all the laurels of the winner.
The flight to Mars and the serious colonization of the solar system are, of course, tasks of different levels. But without the technologies that are required to solve the first, it is absolutely impossible to solve the second. The existing manned astronautics also began not with many months of expeditions to an advanced orbital station, but with a short flight on a simple spacecraft.

USER_NT
There is a cool movie with Jodie Foster, the contact is called
My Favorite Movie.

Poccia It was
necessary to fly so that there were no doubts.
Scientists and specialists have no doubts, but conspiracy theorists and the ignorant public are not interested in facts, they prefer their maneuver.

Veenine wrote:
Scientists and specialists have no doubts, but conspiracy theorists and the ignorant public are not interested in facts, they prefer their maneuver.
Well, Gagarin flew normally. Many already probably think that on the Moon, the Americans could take a picture on their phone.
And I don't think anything anymore, now it's more important who is better armed. Would have done better.

We need to expand the territory, so we, in any case, will have to try first, start developing areas outside the Earth.

Russia The
maximum due to which the Russian Federation will be able to expand its territory is due to the Arctic. The moon will be behind amers. Here the question of financial capacity is decisive. And the Russian Federation and the United States are not a competitor in terms of the economy. And before expanding the territory, you need to make sure that we will not lose what we have. Vova has been flirting too actively with the Chinese and Japanese lately. You look, now he will partially hand over smokers. The Chinese will pour something.