About post-apocalypse living conditions ... (Fallout 4)
Where does Bethesda have a strong belief that people after the apocalypse should live like homeless people?There must be heaps of rubbish on the street and always (!) In houses. In no case should I give birth, I have to walk like miners (although the miners just wash after a hard day).
It is clear if there is rubbish in the abandoned houses - no one has appeared for two hundred years. But when people begin to live in a settlement, why can't they (as the developed apparently think) at least just sweep the trash out of the house ?! It is clear that demanding even walls or something cozy and beautiful is too much (not every person can make a roof over his head, let alone the walls), but sweep the trash out, KARL!
But no, it's cool to live in a barn ...
Spoiler
It was worth asking about the garbage in the house and rushed ... Idios Panopticon
Knowledge alone is not enough to rebuild civilization. We still need to collect this knowledge, pass it on to the next generations. This requires schools, institutes, factories, factories, hospitals, police and so on. And this is all destroyed by bombs.
Just imagine, nuclear bombs fell, the majority of the population died, the few survivors suffer from diseases, bandits and just stress, because they do not know how to continue to live. Everything they are accustomed to has been destroyed. Various gangs immediately appear, ready to kill anyone for a piece of bread, or use them for personal interests, for example, as a slave. (For example, even now, without nuclear bombs and the apocalypse, simply dismiss the police and tomorrow there will be individuals who are not burdened with intelligence, ready to stab you at the entrance for a hundred rubles.) They do not care what knowledge a person has, they will easily burn books for heating. Meanwhile, people need to take care of at least survive, and not build factories and plants. Even if these people have preserved their pre-war knowledge about the structure of the world, they will not be complete and will not be passed on to future generations because they are unnecessary. Do you need quantum physics, chemistry, microbiology in the garden? Moreover, how many people generally know these sciences at the proper level? What's the use of your knowledge of an internal combustion engine if you still can't put it together? Why? Because there are no machines, tools, equipment, electricity, people who can work on these machines, materials, nothing. And why is it needed, this internal combustion engine, where to use it? And where to get gasoline, oil for it? This also requires factories and thousands of qualified specialists serving them. Where to get them? In such conditions, all pre-war knowledge will last for one generation, and after 2-3 generations it will be transmitted in the form of myths and fairy tales about how three good fellows fought for life, and to death with the evil three-headed monster Staphylococcus. Or about the superhero Electron, who ran (literally) along the wires and carried light to people.
Humanity will again return to the tribal system. Well, maximum to the feudal. And it will take many hundreds of years to rebuild civilization.
Sonic778
Water is radioactive because it contains ions of radioactive metals that were used in nuclear bombs.
Sonic778
I have already graduated from college, and I design just engines (yes, yes). And I can confidently say that I will not assemble the engine myself. Little knowledge, practice is needed. We need experience, technology. Even when designing some part, I have only a rough idea of ​​how it will be done on the machine. I do not know the technology of welding, and in general, every time I come to the plant, I learn something new about the production of some part. Even if I have at my disposal a whole, not destroyed plant, I will not assemble the engine. Okay, even if I collect it, I'll spend 5 years on it. But what will I eat these 5 years? And then what to do with this engine? I'd rather go grow potatoes and tomatoes. If any knowledge is in demand, it will be the most essential. How to sew clothes and shoes for example. And all high technologies will be forgotten very quickly if you do not deal with them constantly. And who needs them? If I'm not mistaken, then less than a percent of the population survived by the fallout lore. For example, in my KB there are 300 engineers, 300 accountants, and 500 workers, of which, for example, 1 engineer, 1 accountant and 2 workers survived. Will they be able to restore production? Do they need it? Or will they still go to cultivate a vegetable garden in order to eat at least something?
If we are talking specifically about the restoration of civilization, then we need not one-time handicraft production, but industrial, on an ongoing basis, with a large volume of production. It takes a lot of people. And they just do not exist.
And handicraft production in the Foll is already there in the form of crafting and construction.
nikita2112
1. I will also grow potatoes, and get food for every day - food is the main thing. And then no options. But while it grows, I will somehow make my life easier.
2. Well, the engine cannot be assembled. But you can collect something. It’s not worth the price for an engineer who cannot assemble something with handles.
3. High technologies are an uncertain concept. KTP and TO, I agree, are not needed, and elementary knowledge of electrical engineering, hydraulics, TMM (perhaps too pretentious);) are very valuable! For example, at least it's elementary to solder the radio - to talk to others, to call for help if anything ...
If we are talking specifically about the restoration of civilization
No, this is not the restoration of civilization, I, frankly, no longer know what it is about.)) I just didn’t like that the settlers lack hygiene, but then it started ...)
PS I’m embarrassed to ask what I did in practice. ? )
Sonic778
Here they wrote, And the fact that after 200 years people have not restored civilization until now, no one is surprised? and I do not believe at all that a technologically advanced civilization can be destroyed by a nuclear war.
To this I also answered.
In practice, we were engaged in a completely different topic. And all this has long been forgotten, tk. did not use this knowledge.
Sonic778
"I know gas dynamics very well (I have to calculate TKRs), hydraulics - if I have a piece of tin and metal shears at hand, I can definitely make a curved-oblique hydraulic turbine, but it will work."
You are a couch doll on pathos, you will bend in the first couple of minutes of the power supply unit, he is going to cut a hydraulic turbine out of tin, funny. After all that you have scribbled here, you are not perceived as an engineer, well, so a young engineer half-time with unstable self-esteem, or what is more like the truth, a pimply teenager with a bunch of complexes.
For less die-hard users, there is a movie already written about him. "On the last bank", there is the problem of survival after an atomic power supply, it is well shown, or rather, no one there assembles turbines from tin and does not solder transmitters from transistors, it is just that everyone suddenly died, well, that's all, a deep drama.
Along the path along the quest "The Path to Freedom", there is a building where the Swamp Mother lives, there is a corpse of a civilian with a note that the raiders took him in hand because he could read. It turns out that after 200 years, not everyone knows how to read.
I can put together a shortwave radio station because I know how, but can you?
So what is the contradiction? This is what you do in the game. You collect pre-war trash and make the necessary things out of it.
But this is not a production, not a production chain, and not a restored social order.
Actually, these factors are holding back from starting a global war, and not the presence of nuclear weapons themselves. More than one specialist, and it has been repeatedly described that no matter who starts a nuclear war, there will be no winners in it, because the current world social and industrial order will cease to exist as such.
Silly argument))) all your arguments are crossed out with one simple word "Alternative reality". Everything. All your arguments about this will be shattered. You have no idea what the laws of physics and chemistry are) You don’t know what kind of water there is, what the metal is made of, and what were the life and customs of people. You talk about this, transferring the situation to our world. We must clearly understand that the world of fallout and the real world are different things.
You talk about this, transferring the situation to our world. We must clearly understand that the world of fallout and the real world are different things.
Games and films are made on the basis of hypotheses and theories prevailing at one time or another. They are not created from scratch.
Fallout, this game dates back to the Cold War period. At that time, there were many hypotheses and theories and this count. Films and games were made on these hypotheses.
Or, take the movie Universal Soldier, for example. Do you think this is an alternate reality? No. There was such a Pentagon program. I don’t know how things were with the corpses, but the drug was intensively developed. The same dope grows under the feet of those military programs.
Now, there is a lot of attention in the military sphere to exoskeletons and robotic complexes, which is displayed in games and films. Wherever you spit, exoskeletons are everywhere. ))
In general, an alternative reality, which is not so alternative.
lokkie
All this, of course, is wonderful, including your deep knowledge, but still this is a game alternative reality. And any arguments are broken about it. To any of your questions, you can safely answer "in this reality like this."
however, it is still a playable alternate reality.
Naturally. Pops the same.
So I think in a simulator of post-nuclear survival, it is unlikely that anyone would be interested in playing, without the gameplay alternative variety. At least for the mass consumer. )
lokkie
Simulators - they are generally for amateurs) They cannot attract a wide mass of them.
lokkie
Oh, okay. I don’t even remember what we’re arguing about.)
The only thing that keeps us from a global war is only one reason - the inevitability of a retaliatory strike.
The presence of a variety of debris in populated spaces has surprised me since the days of FO: 3. This is really illogical, even for the sake of atmosphere. If in FO: 4 we are building a lot of "shit and sticks", then the garbage becomes just stupidity. I'm not a specialist in scripts and programs, but it seems to me that with the appearance of at least one inhabitant in the settlement, the garbage display could be removed. In the uninhabited wastelands, let it roll around as much as you like, and the atmosphere would not only not suffer, but would just be more emphasized - people live here, there is "shit and garbage."
valegorr
Thank you. The only person who answered the topic of the question.
I am also not special in scripts, but I think it would be easy to do so that when residents appear in the settlement, the garbage would gradually disappear (at least from the houses).
Sonic778
But I will break off your gratitude :) the topic has developed into a very amusing dispute
Barsagar
Silly dispute))) all your arguments are crossed out by one simple phrase "Alternative reality"
Something true. In this case, we have "virtual reality", which is created both on the basis of real knowledge of mankind, and on the basis of theories, assumptions, delusions and fantastic assumptions, stitched together (in places without any logic and other cause-and-effect relationships). And it was created for entertainment, as "the forty-seventh, relatively honest, way of taking money from the population."
But what is happening in this topic and what the respected lokkie wrote about, in particular, is the reverse extrapolation of a now concrete example to real life, as an attempt to suggest how it would be in real life. Heh, using all the same real-world knowledge garnished with theories, assumptions and assumptions. So, in general, the dispute is not so stupid as it might seem at first glance :)
valegorr
This is what a question about garbage can lead to.)) Just about garbage ...
Or rather, about the psychology of people.
Sonic778
:) try to console yourself with the fact that the discussion is generally correct and the topic has not gone towards some kind of "lead riser" and its use in ... well, in general, in ways not planned by the developers;) or for something worse
I think this is really due to the action taking place in the USA. I think if the action of the game took place somewhere in Germany, the player would have learned about the apocalypse on the street only from the news bulletins.
And so, how many cases are known that in the same World War II, even in a seemingly hopeless situation, right during the bombing they found the strength to clean up.