Justification of the actions of the heroes

[quote name = "kawa77"] [b] FoxHounder [/ b], you know, I'm too lazy to chew on everything. I thought that in my first post I explained my attitude to the problem quite popularly. And one more thing: video games are not art. There are, of course, brilliantly implemented games that blow away the roof or that someone wants to drag away into phrases. But cool games and art are completely different planes ...

In general, ACE, as always, cuts the truth. )) There are holes in games and films, and they pissed off. No more no less. And this is not a reason to call the plot - shit ... [/ quote]
How does the music sold in the store differ from the same games sold in the same store? And why is music an art and a game not?

By the way, in CX2 with motivation, everything is great. Conscience GG-i. Yes, and just about everything in the game, everything is great.
Games-art rocked in razvlekalov, or entertainingly gave birth to objects of art, let everyone decide for himself. But this is true for cinematography (although the "efficiency" is higher there) and, in general, for all branches of creative work. All IMHO.

[b] Elzerd [/ b], grotesque conveyor-based pop, both music and play, is never art, since the artistic value is 0.0 (zero point, fucking tenths). they can evoke emotions that are positive for fans with no taste and negative for people who fumble in. but that doesn't mean anything. it is also like a graphomaniac vyser - not literature. hence, games that indulge the vile (myasooo, tit !!!) are not art. but about the high is told either very poorly, or examples of the opposite are difficult to find. therefore, most games are closer to sports.

[b] oleg klopov [/ b], Why go to extremes? Your examples will fit any kind of art - painting, architecture, etc. And even then, here, too, there are reservations (they have been said many times), to make a mass, high-quality product - you also need to be able and often you can't go through "mechanical" labor. I'm talking about quality and good products :)

[b] Elzerd [/ b], well-built auto art? no. quality can be anything. but art is an extremely evocative [significant] emotional experience + aesthetic and so on. As much as I like the meaty quality shooter "Painkiller", it is the same art as the movie "Transformers" (that is, none), only I don't like the Transformers. yes, the techniques of cinema, drama are used, but this has not yet taken the rails so much to change the consciousness of people. the game is entertainment, akin to sports. at this stage, it is still the embryo of what it will all develop into. and then there will probably be something more. now 99.999% of games do not have those expressive capabilities / abilities, so that they can be put in a row with cinematography, literature and the rest like this.

[quote name = "ACE"] [b] FoxHounder [/ b], the plot in cx is one big hole, which is correctly called a mysterious surrealistic atmosphere. this is the main feature of cx. it was specially made that way, and the fans invented the plot themselves [/ quote]

Ace, this is your coolest phrase of all time. Seriously.

[b] opposer [/ b], so that I clearly and finally understand who I'm talking to, I ask: is there no plot in the cx?

[quote name = "oleg klopov"] [b] Elzerd [/ b], well-built auto art? no. quality can be anything. but art is an extremely evocative [significant] emotional experience + aesthetic and so on. As much as I like the meaty quality shooter "Painkiller", it is the same art as the movie "Transformers" (that is, none), only I don't like the Transformers. yes, the techniques of cinema, drama are used, but this has not yet taken the rails so much to change the consciousness of people. the game is entertainment, akin to sports. at this stage, it is still the embryo of what it will all develop into. and then there will probably be something more. now 99,999 games do not have those expressive capabilities / abilities, so that they can immediately be put in a row with cinema, literature and the rest. [/ quote]
According to your logic, it turns out that only "milestone" groups and performers can be called art? Those. those who either changed something, or made a revolution / a qualitative leap in the industry, or "like a hard underground for the masses"? And the rest of the bands, pleasing with high-quality, interesting, with a characteristic (and this is not a sign of creativity) sound, sometimes even bringing something new?
I do not want to argue. Simply in my opinion, when the author "descends" to the reader / listener / etc., adjusts to his "requirements", if only to please him (or to make a profit) - this is already "pop" in the worst sense of the word ... And when a person does his job with high quality, pleases with fresh ideas and interesting material, forcing the consumer to "rise" to his level, maybe even reconsider his views or look from a different angle - this is 100% creativity. And this is true when they pay for it - this is the artist's bread.
Just, for example, in email. music there is a performer (I will not go into details) who is very famous and popular (almost a legend in his genre), but each release is an absolutely new sound that is not like anything else, which you do not immediately understand, and only people with good taste. Doesn't he do art?

[b] oleg klopov [/ b], listen, well, why take a show-off, right? I went through the first two, really liked it (everything except the gameplay). The plot is there. It is deliberately left full of holes like a sieve to "think out".

That's just interesting. Is there a canonical interpretation of the plot of the CX epic? So that the document with the script was straightforward, according to which the games were then cooked.

[b] Elzerd [/ b], you are trying to tell me now that music is an art. it is so, be it electronic or some other. and with this I do not argue and strongly support. I'm just saying that games themselves are nothing more than entertainment. games are still a frail symbiosis of music and cinema and sports / interactivity. this is for now, since all this is developing rapidly.

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[b] opposer [/ b], specifically, where are the holes? the stories there are absolutely complete and complete (I did not play the last one).

[b] oleg klopov [/ b], Yes, I don’t argue. It's just that good games (we don't take games like 50 cent: Storm of shit) include music, painting, literature (a script must also be invented), etc.
[b] opposer [/ b], You take bad targets for the obser. :)

[quote name = "opposer"] [quote name = "ACE"] [b] FoxHounder [/ b], the plot in cx is one big hole, which is correctly called a mysterious surrealistic atmosphere. this is the main feature of cx. it was specially made that way, and the fans invented the plot themselves [/ quote]

Ace, this is your coolest phrase of all time. Seriously. [/ Quote]
Well, where is my plus sign? : gigi:

I suggest the author to play early silent heals and medium ff before scolding them.
it would be nice and objective.
and then the author would not have to dodge objects flying at him.

[quote name = "opposer"] The goblin said powerfully [/ quote]
very persistent fanaticism for the person the goblin considers a schoolboy ...

[quote name = "opposer"] This explains especially well why 95 percent of anime is shit. [/ quote] This is
especially well illustrated by the wisdom: "do not make yourself an idol"

[quote name = "opposer"] [quote name = "ACE"] [b] FoxHounder [/ b], the plot in cx is one big hole, which is correctly called a mysterious surrealistic atmosphere. this is the main feature of cx. it was specially made that way, and the fans invented the plot themselves [/ quote]
Ace, this is your coolest phrase of all time. Seriously. [/ Quote]
Kukushko praises the Rooster for praising Kukushko. (c) Grandfather Krylov

[b] FoxHounder [/ b], you answered not at all in the subject

Logic in the style of gamag:
-The plot is shit!
-No plot!
If he's not there, how can he be shit? Your reasoning is full of holes, I am enraged by leaky reasoning !! 1 (c)

yeah, they already have no plot in SH: shock:

[b] FoxHounder [/ b], well, so I said that he is not there so that he was shit
can you read? : confused:

SH2 has one of the best stories in video games, it is generally accepted by both players and critics.

[b] ACE [/ b], you said - this does not mean that he is not there, since no justifications were followed. And such a conclusion can hardly be substantiated with anything at all.

- Do you see a gopher?
-No.
-And he is. (c)

And on the subject, it remains only opposer to remind us that there is no gameplay in Shenmue, and the mission of bringing TEH WISDOM to the people can be considered completed.