The strongest faction (Medieval 2: Total War)

Ad Cavarinus.
Two squads with different sides is cool!!! You can even offer not to fight with the peasants having in the army, one commander, because playing RTW-BI some time suppressed his heir riot 5 units of peasants and with the swoop in the second the General was killed (more of a squad so no one was killed, all the peasants I killed, of course).

Really Hiking boyar children usually smashing foot knights feudal by penetration of armor, although anything can turn around. Generally look at the features you need, but do not get carried away. As I understand it, in protracted melee affect not only the amount prescribed armor and class armor. In addition, when different types of guns there are different types of strokes warriors, with swords, with the shield only 5-6 more of them (just could not identify), the spearmen only 2, the dvuruchnikami - 3, etc. the more variety, the more effective warriors. Then warriors with two-handed weapons seen to have a greater range, but in a landfill is rarely used.

Itself by far the strongest faction is difficult to identify, moreover, it depends on the mod. So, in vanilla HRE was worse Fratsii and England, and after retrofita at the level. Of course, Russia due to the huge provinces, the permanent rebel, the Mongols, Catholics and dreams pokrushit schismatics in the East (it would be better for the soul of thought,)) - - - explicitly not a fountain. Without the Baltic States with money will be tight. The same Poland located better.

2 Dimon NEW

let's start with, what exactly are you playing?

Me on the facts in the post from 09.08.08 03:10 referred to the standard M2TW versions 1.3. No mods.

2 Cavarinus

Farso if you play some local mod, then there is Rus can all tear to pieces, this can be done in the original, changing the characteristics of attack and defense.

As I indicated above, I play mostly in standard M2TW, mods don't like.

But the reality I have are that Russia gives almost all the Nations( for all non-Gamal) fashion Stainless Steel

HHA! In this thread we seem to be talking about standard and not about fashion. A lot of mods, all different, differences from the original the sea. As for fashion Stainless Steel... Quite a long time played it (version 6.1). Great mod, the best, in my opinion, from a variety of mods. He is good in everything except one - changes the characteristics of units. Many units there dropped through the floor, some reinforced totally unreasonable. Indeed, in this fashion Novgorod and Kievan Rus - one of the weakest Nations. But I was not talking about mod SS, but about the original.

boyar children and unfortified squad have the same characteristics - 11/15
And gospitalerov, potderzhki without cavalry or archers, even with 4-fold numerical superiority to destroy will not work.

We immediately see that we are talking about mod SS, because there is only Hiking the Hospitallers. Repeat in this fashion Russian nation down the floor. In the original Russian heavy infantry, even conceding the characteristics, tears 1на1 many types penty knight of the West, as armed with axes, and knights with swords. Axe>>sword.

Melee they also worse than the Turkish infantry: 11/15 11/17 vs

[Whisper]: axes there are Russian, and the Turks - no.

And then there are the Milanese crossbowmen and Janissaries with muskets.Last kill 4 of the squad, and there is still 1/4 rounds.

Cossacks with muskets are inferior Except in the notorious Stainless Steel. In addition, the test you conducted is clearly in armored units, because muskets and crossbowmen ignore wrong, and archers - no. So the comparison is incorrect.

Royal guard is very strong, perhaps this is the strongest cavalry. The tests were decided by the Khan's Royal guard and the Mamelukes.A good idea used it yet to test against the French lancers.

Tests against all kinds of elite cavalry. Tears all.

If you want to make your words treated seriously - often bring proof, better numeric. And to say that someone is the coolest guided by personal preferences, and not checking at least 2/3 of all Nations is the amateurism.

Numerical evidence? I mean the characteristics of the units? Sorry, but I'm not such a nerd to remember them all by heart. As for personal preferences, here again you by. My favorite nation in the game is France and Portugal. Just Russia IN the ORIGINAL is also very strong nation, which many Nuba unfairly criticized, because it lacks the ability to develop at the start. As far as the verification of all Nations: you did, I stated in the post above, which was playing all the Nations (some more than once) except the Moors, Sicily, Hungary and Poland. Repeated especially for you. In addition, before writing their statements, I thoroughly test in Custom Battle.


Summing up our argument can tell you one thing: we are talking about different games. SS mod very much changed the game, lowering one nation and raising others. Russia - among bowed. But I believe that talking in this thread have all about the original, since the theme is the Most powerful faction and not the Most powerful faction in fashion Stainless Steel. This is all very reminiscent of the situation that 1-2 years ago happened in the section Rome Total War. There is also in the same topic find out the most powerful nation, only one was referring to the original RTW, and the other mod Rome Total Realism. There it came to mutual insults. :/

2Farso
conducted experiments here...for m2tw 1.3
Boyar children vs Gothic knights - the Goths win, they are losing 80-90% of the squad due to the fact that their children throw spears
Hiking boyar children vs English knights, the English win, they are losing 40-50% of the squad


regarding ss6.1
balance is the best mod
well explain to me how the boyar children, which in normal pants and chain mail, can be stronger than the English clad in heavy armor knights? taking into account the fact that the British have always been more experienced teacher, if I may say so, that gave tactical superiority...and the fact that in ss6.1 lowered Slavs - well, it's not really clean water - as soon as the guys with guns is Achtung....

here's another tried to reduce 60 German dvuruchnikami with 120 Alabardieri Russia...or Nila or Russia remains 3-5 people...

Dimon NEW, let's understand the game, not in history? The game is only partially simulates the story, right? ;)
Now, the armor Yes, the foot below the boyars, but the line effective against armor reduces the number of armor in two. Yes, Hiking the knights still strong, but to fight against them all the same really, checked. ;) Another thing is in SS annoying that for 3 cities from the enemy and the city develop and 3 full stack hanging around throughout the County, not counting the garrisons in the cities...

PS. SS foot knights at all the monsters single-handedly chopped down a 2-3 squad of Italian militia with +1 attack and +1, +2 armor is no problem(if all three front esessno.) against them really voeval either cavalry, or the same canned, or anti-tank Riflemen.
Zzy If the fraction is difficult, it does not mean that she no. ;) Incidentally, in SS for tamplierov start not tried it, but I think there shaped ass. everywhere a bunch of Muslims, and all evil. =)

so the game has a historical basis right?
so that's how the average ax to break armor? IT's NOT REAL...and that against knights can fight - well, Yes :) should be able to just :)

regarding PS
what do you want? who is the knight? this is a professional warrior, death machine, right?
and who is this Italian militi? same farmer with the duties of keeping order and any rights for this, that is the district or Ppsnik :)

so who will win? ;)

and the difficulty of the faction and not to mention its weakness militarily (on the weakness of the army), and is in the original strategic location

the knights Templar - very interesting I'll tell you :) the difficulty is about the same as my beloved Teutons :)

2 Dimon NEW

Boyar children vs Gothic knights - the Goths win, they are losing 80-90% of the squad due to the fact that their children throw spears

That's it. The initial detachment of cavalry almost makes the elite squad appearing only at the end of the game. And you say weak nation.

Hiking boyar children vs English knights, the English win, they are losing 40-50% of the squad

English knights - these are the guys that are armed with two-handed axes? It's clear that they win because they have the same advantage in armor-piercing and seigniorial children. But the fact that such knights have only England, France, Portugal and SRI there are knights with maces. And they are available to be goraaaaazdo later than Bharata. It is necessary to compare it with knights and swordsmen, which make up most of the knight corps in the game and every Western European nation.


here's another tried to reduce 60 German dvuruchnikami with 120 Alabardieri Russia...or Nila or Russia remains 3-5 people...

First, these same dvuruchnikami produced in the units in the amount of 2 times smaller than the standard, i.e., the fight was equivalent. Second, if I remember correctly, Russian halberd fighters are being built in cities, i.e., they are in fact militias. It is strange that they sometimes beat the professionals.


well explain to me how the boyar children, which in normal pants and chain mail, can be stronger than the English clad in heavy armor knights? taking into account the fact that the British have always been more experienced teacher, if I may say so, that gave tactical superiority...

Here about teachers you're wrong. I read a lot about the fact that in the middle ages (1000-1300 years) Russian combatants were the best in Europe. In fact at that time it was the only regular troops in the region. Each combatant was superior to the knight in training, was inferior to the equipment and, most importantly, discipline in the squad was much stronger than the knights, with whom she had a weak spot. In addition, the Russian principalities were constantly at war with each other, which gave invaluable combat experience. Europeans knights also fought, but rarely.

and the difficulty of the faction and not to mention its weakness militarily (on the weakness of the army), and is in the original strategic location

That's it. What I'm talking about. The only drawback of Russia in M2TW - bad start. But to fight she is, at all stages.

the knights Templar - very interesting

Not played for them, but, IMHO, it is difficult with one lock at the start... They are in the SS is usually the first to stand.

Duc boyars ' children as well to end the appear

English - no, not the ones that 2ручкини, and ordinary knights with swords and shield

that is not all the castle...

fought all of course, but as such, the treatise on the art of war if I may say so, it was not our only Kabakov appeared...

well I wouldn't say that is one city 2 the army...the first 5 turns and you have 3 cities...nothing complicated...

I'm here right now as the Teutonic knights, the knights Templar began to play :)

I am right now for the Scots in the British play, yesterday, bugger the full stack of Vikings(from the series more generals, more chances to win, while I only have ~800 potaninii. Tried to stand next to the wall was lost, all herded into the area and even almost all covered with pikemen - a heroic victory. Walesa sent to fight with the Union Barons, then be sent to Wales or England.
So Scotland even in normal are just good power.

Ad Farso
Totally agree. Boyar children really represented regular military class trained to fight as a horse, and on foot, and usually they obeyed cysectomy and formed a so-called policeman of the regiment, separate from princely. Lats visited them, however, still worse than the knights, as it is a mass army. Until the second third of the XIV century the possession of a policeman in the Vladimir regiment as a rule, decided military conflicts between the princes in North-Eastern Russia (sometimes, however, the carrier and the Tatars), without him to Novgorod did not go. Similar regiments were formed somewhat later in Pereyaslavl, Tver, Moscow, Suzdal, Nizhny and other cities. It is very well described by D. Balashov in his novels, fiction there probably is present, but in General he is unlikely to heavily twist against the truth, no wonder after more than 20 years the man sat reading sources.

Dimon NEW Ad
All Italian urban militia are not peasants. This is a more trained army of more wealthy people. That's right, that they are quite strong in the game (at least in the original), although there are more options. Wrong different: in Italy in addition, there is also a full stack of castle troops, which no one, except the Sicilians, should not be in such quantity and quality.

If you watch the attack and defense, not only Italian militia strong(I usually take the spears, there was a defense above), but also the city guard, they attack my 8, protection is not too small, and the cava they Drut as possible although they do not have advantages against her. But on the battlefield they are still not necessary to start, there is often worse than cannon fodder.

Ad Mualem[returned to the bosom of the Church]
Clarification: I meant the General militia, not a separate species, all of spearmen and crossbowmen, and cavalry.

The Spanish-Portuguese militia, too bad, primarily due to the swordsmen.

Duc boyars ' children as well to end the appear

The question is: how did you do for Russia? Boyars ' children appear in the very beginning, simultaneously with the Kazakhs, before the advent of Squad, Prince and Royal guards.

English - no, not the ones that 2ручкини, and ordinary knights with swords and shield

Very strange that they won with such margin. One storony, England has one of the strongest corps in the game... But in General, they won, losing only 50%, only by chance. Here I am yesterday, too, waste goth kids vs Boyarskiy - won children, losing 90%. I.e. time on time is not necessary.

that is not all the castle...

But I'm sure that the Russian berdashery city opolchentsi troops. I do not remember, maybe SS differently.

well I wouldn't say that is one city 2 the army...the first 5 turns and you have 3 cities...nothing complicated...

Compare the start of Russia with the start of England, France or HRE - and all will become clear...

Wrong different: in Italy in addition, there is also a full stack of castle troops, which no one, except the Sicilians, should not be in such quantity and quality.

Totally agree. Historically, the Italians fought or urban militias, or mercenaries. What they do have knights - a liberty developers for the sake of balance.

The Spanish-Portuguese militia, too bad, primarily due to the swordsmen.

They have Ginnety - one of the best views of the city troops in the game.

I like the Mongols with their heavy archers and heavy cavalry (spearmen, archers)

Want to ask a question. And how do you compare units? Put in the open field 1 on 1 and wall to wall? Well, that is unreasonable, because all siltie will be halberds: long weapons, and armor probivaet. And that slow, no shields, and normally, their first mow of the Archer, and then in the side comes the infantry (and better cavalry) you will not be considered. Or a comparison of knights and boyar children (horse that is). You, too, to the forehead bleed? Or first zip Russian cavalry across the map from the knights, peppering them with spears and then attack? The result, I can assure you, will be very arzneim.
I'm not talking about horse of the nobles: heavy cavalry with bows. Who do you put against it, knights? Then don't join the melee and bombard from afar. Put horse archers? Then try rather to come together in close quarters, as in other Nations horse archers order of magnitude weaker (except the Mongols and Timurids).
When comparing whether you use onslaught (charge) to both teams or a slow deal? The dvuruchnikami great advantage in the onslaught. But Hiking Russian nobles will be first to fire at the attacking knights. Especially for those that particularly gentle, two-handed axes, since they have no shields. And to put the knights have not as close, and as far as possible, what would they get full of arrows: in a battle the troops are starting to not close, and even on the distance of an arrow's flight. So archers have a chance to thin out the advancing infantry, before getting involved with her in hand to hand combat. Plus while the dvuruchnikami always will podostemum, which again will benefit the arrows.
The question arises about the area where you experiment. It's a forest, field, desert? I think most field. How is it smooth? Or one of the units will not will find yourself on even a small, but hills? From the hill to attack easier, uphill, on the contrary harder. In the snow the advantage of the Europeans in the deserts - Muslims, and heavily armored knights a lot faster losing strength. Maloveroyatno that the experimental area that's completely flat field.
Besides the power units is not only who is more powerful, and who most blows holds. This is still morality and endurance. Not always makes sense to go in melee, if the enemy heavy knights: they can quickly chase, and tired easily break.

A lot of options. And pointless to compare units, pushing them 1 by 1. Especially without taking into account their cost, content, construction line, required for their employment. So the argument is pointless. Each nation has units that can be put on walls, drive to defend, to mount, to put to fight in an open field, or on the contrary - to send to storm the walls or the aforementioned mountains. Next - everyone decides their strength, and the tactics of the commanders. Well, the economy of their countries.

PS Corrected, not all have units on all occasions. Egipat have no assault units to fight in the field or the defense.

There are, certainly, many referring to their FAVORITE units.... And the taste and color as they say...well, you understand me, guys.
Of course, the best universal soldiers - firing of heavy infantry and horsemen. Well, the best would be shooting nuclei heavy infantryman, running with the speed of the horse and the whole armor (just kidding)...

2petja5
I compare 2 stage
1. first, consider the characteristics of the unit in the scripts
2. check the battle on normal difficulty in 1 on 1 unit with an equivalent improvement. first few fights in one squad, then another...so for me reliable 90% of the situation with the data units

this comparison just shows the strength/protection in relation to other units and only a completely different question - what do I need to produce this unit, and the stronger and more developed faction the sooner it will be able to create your units, thus emerges that the balance of the faction and the higher it is the stronger faction, so the topic is fully justified :)

petja5 very aptly

Ad petja5
A case where I'd like to write (I found this post just now on the link from the other topics, thank you Cavarinus), but should be avoided. People wrote what is true.